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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't got time to argue today, but I will say I agree very much with Ya-ta boy, and not at all with Gopher.
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: ... |
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1. "Cooperating" doesn't really fit, either. Negotiating is a better word.
2. It seems pretty easy to exhaust all diplomatic options when you're not going beyond token attempts at diplomacy.
3. As long as there's an election coming in 2009, perhaps there's no harm in waiting until then.
4. Notice how black/white this is for some. |
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Cornfed
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| No. We are not interested in "cooperating" with the Iranian regime while it pursues nuclear weapons, the destruction or Israel, hosts Holocaust-denial conferences, etc. |
I don't see why any Americans other than Zionazis and their shabbat goy lickspittles should care about these issues or regard them as being any of their business. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| Cornfed wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| No. We are not interested in "cooperating" with the Iranian regime while it pursues nuclear weapons, the destruction or Israel, hosts Holocaust-denial conferences, etc. |
I don't see why any Americans other than Zionazis and their shabbat goy lickspittles should care about these issues or regard them as being any of their business. |
Hasn't Iran been behind attacks on US forces? Iran supports Hezbollah. Hezbollah has attacked US forces. They also sell drugs and counterfeit US money.
Iran wants to put Hezbollah under a nuclear umbrella. Is that a good thing?
Iran wants to spread its revolution / conquer the Mideast or at least control gulf oil in order to have power over western nations. Is that a good thing?
Why ought Iran to have that kind of power? Why does the US just have to accept it? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: |
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By Con Coughlin
Last Updated: 1:46AM GMT 15 Nov 2006
Iran plotting to groom bin Laden's successor
Uranium detected in Iranian waste dump
Iran is seeking to take control of Osama bin Laden's al-Qa'eda terror network by encouraging it to promote officials known to be friendly to Teheran, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.
| Quote: |
According to recent reports received by Western intelligence agencies, the Iranians are training senior al-Qa'eda operatives in Teheran to take over the organisation when bin Laden is no longer leader.
Rumours have been circulating about the state of his health for several months. Bin Laden, 49, who is known to suffer from kidney problems that require regular dialysis, has not appeared in one of his videotapes for more than two years, prompting speculation that he is dead.
A leaked report from the French intelligence service, the DGSE, in September suggested bin Laden, who has a $25 million price on his head, had died of typhoid earlier this year.
Even if he is still alive, intelligence officials are working on the assumption that his ability to control the organisation has been severely diminished, and that most of the day-to-day running is being undertaken by Ayman al-Zawahiri, bin Laden's Egyptian-born number two.
Iran has always maintained close relations with al-Qa'eda, even though the Shia Muslim state is known to have many ideological and strategic differences with the terror group's Sunni leadership.
Western intelligence officials now believe that Iran is trying to cultivate a new generation of al-Qa'eda leaders who will be prepared to work closely with Teheran when they eventually take control.
Recent intelligence reports from Iran suggest the Iranians are particularly keen to promote Saif-al-Adel, a notorious al-Qa'eda operative who is wanted in the United States for his alleged role in training several of the September 11 hijackers.
Al-Adel, 46, a former colonel in Egypt's special forces who joined al-Qa'eda after fighting with the Mujahideen against Soviet forces in Afghanistan in the 1980s, was named in the FBI's list of 22 most wanted terrorists that was issued after the September 11 attacks.
He is also alleged to have been involved in the deaths of 18 US soldiers in Somalia in 1993 and the truck bomb attacks on the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998.
Al-Adel has, technically, been living under house arrest in Teheran since fleeing to Iran in late 2001 with hundreds of other al-Qa'eda fighters following the US-led coalition's invasion of Afghanistan.
For the past five years he has been living in a Revolutionary Guards guest house in Teheran together with Saad and Mohammed bin Laden, two of the al-Qa'eda leader's sons.
Until 2003, al-Adel acted as bin Laden's security chief and since his arrival in Iran he is understood to have struck up a close personal relationship with several prominent Revolutionary Guards commanders.
The Iranians are now exerting pressure on al-Qa'eda's leadership to make al-Adel the organisation's number three which, given bin Laden's poor state of health, would effectively make him number two. This would put him in a strong position to take control of the entire al-Qa'eda network in the event of Zawahiri being killed or being unable to continue running the group.
"This is an important power play by the Iranians and the prospect of al-Qa'eda and Iran forging a close alliance is truly terrifying," said a senior Western intelligence official. "They have had their differences in the past, but with the survival of both Iran and al-Qa'eda now at stake they realise it is in both their interests to have closer ties."
Iran's attempts to forge closer links with al-Qa'eda are understood to have been ordered by President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad, who believes Iran and al-Qa'eda share similar aims � destroying the influence of America and its allies in the wider Middle East. Mr Ahmedinejad is also keen to strengthen the alliance in case Iran is subjected to United Nations sanctions over its refusal to halt its nuclear enrichment programme, which many Western governments believe is being undertaken as part of a clandestine nuclear weapons programme.
If al-Qa'eda is agreeable to appointing al-Adel and other al-Qa'eda figures currently based in Iran to senior positions, the Iranians have agreed to provide training facilities and equipment.
Links between Iran and al-Qa'eda date back to the early 1990s, when bin Laden was based in Sudan. According to the US 9/11 Commission report, Iran's Revolutionary Guards helped to train al-Qa'eda fighters, and the Iranians were suspected of helping al-Qa'eda to carry out the truck bomb attacks against an American military base in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, in June 1996 that killed 19 US servicemen.
The growing links are being viewed with profound alarm in Western intelligence circles. Iran has a long history of sponsoring terror groups. The Revolutionary Guards were primarily responsible for setting up, financing, training and equipping Hizbollah, the radical Lebanese militia that now stands accused of plotting to overthrow the Lebanese government and seize power.
Any increase in Iran's influence over al-Qa'eda could have potentially devastating consequences for international security. Al-Qa'eda has made no secret of its desire to acquire weapons of mass destruction � including "dirty" nuclear bombs.
Intelligence experts believe that Iran will soon have the capacity to develop its own nuclear weapons and Teheran is also known to have developed a highly effective chemical weapons programme.
"We are looking at a Doomsday scenario here where al-Qa'eda finally fulfils its ultimate goal of acquiring weapons of mass destruction," said a senior Western intelligence official. "And unlike other terror groups, al-Qa'eda is perfectly willing to use them." |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1534143/Iran-'is-training-the-next-al-Qa'eda-leaders'.html |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| bin Laden's successor |
Sarah Pin Laden?
LOLOLOL |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
By Con Coughlin
Last Updated: 1:46AM GMT 15 Nov 2006
Iran plotting to groom bin Laden's successor
Uranium detected in Iranian waste dump
Iran is seeking to take control of Osama bin Laden's al-Qa'eda terror network by encouraging it to promote officials known to be friendly to Teheran, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.
| Quote: |
According to recent reports received by Western intelligence agencies, the Iranians are training senior al-Qa'eda operatives in Teheran to take over the organisation when bin Laden is no longer leader.
Rumours have been circulating about the state of his health for several months. Bin Laden, 49, who is known to suffer from kidney problems that require regular dialysis, has not appeared in one of his videotapes for more than two years, prompting speculation that he is dead.
A leaked report from the French intelligence service, the DGSE, in September suggested bin Laden, who has a $25 million price on his head, had died of typhoid earlier this year.
Even if he is still alive, intelligence officials are working on the assumption that his ability to control the organisation has been severely diminished, and that most of the day-to-day running is being undertaken by Ayman al-Zawahiri, bin Laden's Egyptian-born number two.
Iran has always maintained close relations with al-Qa'eda, even though the Shia Muslim state is known to have many ideological and strategic differences with the terror group's Sunni leadership.
Western intelligence officials now believe that Iran is trying to cultivate a new generation of al-Qa'eda leaders who will be prepared to work closely with Teheran when they eventually take control.
Recent intelligence reports from Iran suggest the Iranians are particularly keen to promote Saif-al-Adel, a notorious al-Qa'eda operative who is wanted in the United States for his alleged role in training several of the September 11 hijackers.
Al-Adel, 46, a former colonel in Egypt's special forces who joined al-Qa'eda after fighting with the Mujahideen against Soviet forces in Afghanistan in the 1980s, was named in the FBI's list of 22 most wanted terrorists that was issued after the September 11 attacks.
He is also alleged to have been involved in the deaths of 18 US soldiers in Somalia in 1993 and the truck bomb attacks on the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998.
Al-Adel has, technically, been living under house arrest in Teheran since fleeing to Iran in late 2001 with hundreds of other al-Qa'eda fighters following the US-led coalition's invasion of Afghanistan.
For the past five years he has been living in a Revolutionary Guards guest house in Teheran together with Saad and Mohammed bin Laden, two of the al-Qa'eda leader's sons.
Until 2003, al-Adel acted as bin Laden's security chief and since his arrival in Iran he is understood to have struck up a close personal relationship with several prominent Revolutionary Guards commanders.
The Iranians are now exerting pressure on al-Qa'eda's leadership to make al-Adel the organisation's number three which, given bin Laden's poor state of health, would effectively make him number two. This would put him in a strong position to take control of the entire al-Qa'eda network in the event of Zawahiri being killed or being unable to continue running the group.
"This is an important power play by the Iranians and the prospect of al-Qa'eda and Iran forging a close alliance is truly terrifying," said a senior Western intelligence official. "They have had their differences in the past, but with the survival of both Iran and al-Qa'eda now at stake they realise it is in both their interests to have closer ties."
Iran's attempts to forge closer links with al-Qa'eda are understood to have been ordered by President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad, who believes Iran and al-Qa'eda share similar aims � destroying the influence of America and its allies in the wider Middle East. Mr Ahmedinejad is also keen to strengthen the alliance in case Iran is subjected to United Nations sanctions over its refusal to halt its nuclear enrichment programme, which many Western governments believe is being undertaken as part of a clandestine nuclear weapons programme.
If al-Qa'eda is agreeable to appointing al-Adel and other al-Qa'eda figures currently based in Iran to senior positions, the Iranians have agreed to provide training facilities and equipment.
Links between Iran and al-Qa'eda date back to the early 1990s, when bin Laden was based in Sudan. According to the US 9/11 Commission report, Iran's Revolutionary Guards helped to train al-Qa'eda fighters, and the Iranians were suspected of helping al-Qa'eda to carry out the truck bomb attacks against an American military base in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, in June 1996 that killed 19 US servicemen.
The growing links are being viewed with profound alarm in Western intelligence circles. Iran has a long history of sponsoring terror groups. The Revolutionary Guards were primarily responsible for setting up, financing, training and equipping Hizbollah, the radical Lebanese militia that now stands accused of plotting to overthrow the Lebanese government and seize power.
Any increase in Iran's influence over al-Qa'eda could have potentially devastating consequences for international security. Al-Qa'eda has made no secret of its desire to acquire weapons of mass destruction � including "dirty" nuclear bombs.
Intelligence experts believe that Iran will soon have the capacity to develop its own nuclear weapons and Teheran is also known to have developed a highly effective chemical weapons programme.
"We are looking at a Doomsday scenario here where al-Qa'eda finally fulfils its ultimate goal of acquiring weapons of mass destruction," said a senior Western intelligence official. "And unlike other terror groups, al-Qa'eda is perfectly willing to use them." |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1534143/Iran-'is-training-the-next-al-Qa'eda-leaders'.html |
I don't think Iran is crazy enough to use, even via a proxy, WMD's against the United States. That would be the end of Iran for ever. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
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| bin Laden's successor |
Sarah Pin Laden?
LOLOLOL |
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/saif_al-adel.htm
| Quote: |
Importance Very High
Location Iran
Affiliation Al-Qaeda
Role Security Chief
Supervisor Osama bin Laden
Affiliation Egyptian Islamic Jihad1
Affiliation Al-Qaeda Military Committee5
Full Given Name Muhammad Ibrahim Makkawi
Nationality Egyptian
Alias(es) Ibrahim al-Madani
Alternate Spelling(s) Saif al-Adil, Sayf al Adl, Seif Al Adel, Sayf al-Adl, Saif al-'Adil
Age 45
Date of Birth April 11, 19631
Alternate Date of Birth April 11, 19601
Place of Birth Egypt1
Gender Male
Description Hair: Dark. Eyes: Dark. Complexion: Olive.1
Charged with Conspiracy
Charging authority United States
In connection with East African Embassy Bombings |
Iran hosts Al Qaeda - case closed.
McCain was right. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Does Iran support AQ today? And to what extent?
One thing one will learn when digging through islamist garbage is that virtually every single muslim charity on earth in connected to terrorism. Sad, but true. This does not mean that every single muslim who gives to the charities supports terrorism/radicalism. Like this, Iran, as a nutty muslim country, likely had points of contact with nutty muslim groups. This doesn't mean they're meeting in secret locations plotting the destruction of Chevy Chase via a nuke. We need to be very careful and reasonable in how we deal with that part of the world. Belligerence does not go down well, nor does weakness. Simply doing the Iran supports AQ line does not move us forward. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: |
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I understand your point . I can't answer your question . I don't know to what extent they still cooperate. What is known is that Iran and Hezzbollah have probably worked and cooperated with Al Qaeda. It is also true that Iran hosts Al Qaeda figures to this day.
McCain was criticized for saying that Iran supports Al Qaeda but he in fact was telling the truth.
It is also clear that the liberals who were critical of McCain for saying so have some answering to do for themselves.
At any rate everyone ought to know Irans' record on this issue.
And the US ought to not tolerate anyone , anywhere supporting Al Qaeda.
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Let's make a deal
As a former senior U.S. counterterrorism official told NBC News: �The U.S. government believed that the Saudis made a deal with the Iranians in 1996 after the Khobar Towers bombing. The deal was structured this way: The Saudis would not cooperate with the U.S. on the investigation, knowing that if they did cooperate, the U.S. would have the justification for bombing Iran.�
In return, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, the Iranians agreed not to support any terrorist attacks in the kingdom. (Ultimately, the United States charged Saudi Hezbollah members with the Khobar Towers attack and named as unindicted co-conspirators two officers of Iran�s Ministry of Intelligence.)
�Then, in 2003, we are told, the Saudis � with U.S. and British help � discovered that al-Qaida's management council in Iran was communicating with the al-Qaida cell in Saudi that had carried out the attacks on Western compounds in Riyadh," the official said. |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8330976/print/1/displaymode/1098/ |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Does Iran support AQ today? And to what extent? |
I did like B. Obama's answer to similar questions on B. O'Riley. Iran poses a threat. It is particularly involved not only in covert ops in Lebanon, but in the Iraqi theater as well. But we must distinguish this threat from the threat bin Laden and AQ pose -- although I must admit I have not reviewed any data surrounding the charges that Tehran possibly associates or does associate with bin Laden and/or AQ. Sounds, in any case, like mainstream foreign-policy thinking to me. No different than what any other informed person says on the matter, from the White House to the Pentagon to the J. McCain camp. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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All this bluster about Iran pursuing nuclear weapons is merely cover for advancing the neo-con agenda outlined 11 years ago by Zbigniew Brzezinski in The Grand Chessboard, and also in the Project for a New American Century.
This diabolical plan to dismantle many of the central Asian republics in a bid to control the resources of the area is the roadmap for the permanent war Dick Cheney and others have promised.
The international nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), has strongly denied the charge that Iran is weaponizing its civilian use nuclear stockpile. IAEA chief Mohammad elBaradei has stated he would resign if Iran is attacked on this pretext.
| Gopher wrote: |
| No different than what any other informed person says on the matter, from the White House to the Pentagon to the J. McCain camp. |
Well, that's a real wide spectrum of opinion there!  |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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It is interesting how your worldview not only leads you to conclude that external threats and events occur -- or perhaps "appear to us" would be more precise -- as mere deception operations to manipulate the internal public, but how it also leads you to defend Tehran as a passive actor and a victim in all of this.
Sounds like you have taken G. Orwell's 1984 dogmatically, as have, indeed, many, many others.
If this truly is your anchor to reality, you will lose yourself in the insanity and pathology and find yourself an incurable paranoid in short order. |
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aka Dave
Joined: 02 May 2008
Location: Down by the river
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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For one thing, Israel cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran, for obvious reasons, and the U.S., as a consequence, cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran (and for obvious reasons of our own).
That is the essential fact of the equation, everything else flows from that. The question is, how do we get to preventing proliferation?
Obviously, first negotiate. We need the Europeans with us 100 percent; with Russia flexing its muscles they have to realize that a nuclear Iran would be hugely destabilizing.
I would give away a lot in exchange for *verifiable* elimination of the nuclear program. Full recognition, for one. Trade. Hezbollah is going to be tricky. But you do negotiate. You let them know that we want to solve it through negotiation, but in no conceivable case *ever* will we allow them to have the bomb.
We invaded Hussein and he *didn't* have it. Tell the Iranians if they're close to getting it, there will be consequences. |
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Cornfed
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| aka Dave wrote: |
| For one thing, Israel cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran, for obvious reasons, and the U.S., as a consequence, cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran |
I don't see how that follows. Surely if Iran acquired nuclear weapons and turned Israel into the world's largest glass ashtray then this would actually serve America's interests by removing the ongoing financial and public relations liability that those racist parasites represent. |
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