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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
Oh dear. Sounds as though we are turning into Switzerland!
I remember my neighbour was reported by the old man upstairs....for using her washing machine on the wrong day.  |
Of course, you see the large difference between the state training and employing children as rats (with the explicit encouragement to go out and take pictures, as if your nation didn't have enough pictures..) and a kid ratting on his own regard. No? Do you think it will stop at this? Do government programs every stop at their initially established borders? What will they being spying on next? Or, is it that the farther left on the spectrum one goes, the less the separation between state and society gets.
Anyways, can't you blame this on Thatcher in some way? What if the article had said:
The Guardian said:
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| A legacy of the hard-right Thatcher government, Labour is aggressively criticizing the ongoing violation of privacy in local councils. |
I bet your response would have been a tad different, no? |
No, toss pot. I'm making a light-hearted joke. I guess that's a little difficult for someone so obsessive and so serious to comprehend. Nevermind. Continue. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornfed wrote: |
| I wonder what percentage of parents are already afraid to speak freely in front of their children for fear of being ratted on and hauled away or fired from their jobs or whatever. I imagine it is quite high. The West really has turned into the former Soviet Union with the added indignities of mass unemployment and feminaziism. So tragic. |
Right on. I have even heard a kid once say to his mother, "I'll call child proteciton on you!"
What is even scarier is that there are people who are defending turning the country into a big rathole.
How can inability to trust one's neighbor possibly be compared to littering? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
Oh dear. Sounds as though we are turning into Switzerland!
I remember my neighbour was reported by the old man upstairs....for using her washing machine on the wrong day. |
Of course, you see the large difference between the state training and employing children as rats (with the explicit encouragement to go out and take pictures, as if your nation didn't have enough pictures..) and a kid ratting on his own regard. No? Do you think it will stop at this? Do government programs every stop at their initially established borders? What will they being spying on next? Or, is it that the farther left on the spectrum one goes, the less the separation between state and society gets.
Anyways, can't you blame this on Thatcher in some way? What if the article had said:
The Guardian said:
| Quote: |
| A legacy of the hard-right Thatcher government, Labour is aggressively criticizing the ongoing violation of privacy in local councils. |
I bet your response would have been a tad different, no? |
No, toss pot. I'm making a light-hearted joke. I guess that's a little difficult for someone so obsessive and so serious to comprehend. Nevermind. Continue. |
Yes, sure! Sure. |
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doc_ido
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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I think that this says more about local councils than the state - as far as I've been able to read, they aren't acting on any government directives and are being a little too enthusiastic with new powers originally intended to fight terrorism (which won't be effective, but that's a different story).
As for Britain becoming a "nation of rats", I'd say it's better to encourage and - where appropriate - reward citizens (including children) for speaking out about something than conditioning them to ignore things that aren't directly their problem. The reason that bullying is so widespread in schools is mostly down to kids ignoring it lest they become a target, and not reporting it for fear of being branded a snitch or tell-tale.
This doesn't mean that councils should attempt to sign up volunteers to patrol the streets, but they definitely should encourage people to report law-breaking. If you walk out of your door to see some lout breaking bottles in the street (likely to cause an accident) and don't do anything, it's a very short step to ignoring more serious crime (there was a case in the USA years ago, the name of which escapes me now, where a young woman was assaulted in a well-populated area, in full view of residents, who didn't do anything to help - the assailant returned another two times once it became clear that he could). |
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Cornfed
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| doc_ido wrote: |
| As for Britain becoming a "nation of rats", I'd say it's better to encourage and - where appropriate - reward citizens (including children) for speaking out about something than conditioning them to ignore things that aren't directly their problem. |
The thing is that the West is in the process of disappearing up its own collective backside, so practically anything you do could be regarded as some kind of crime or other. Suppose for example you use illicit drugs or fail to declare your gambling winnings on your tax return. Assuming you kids have been properly trained they will no doubt snitch on you � after all, it's illegal. Suppose you are in the habit of having a beer or two after work during the week. Your kids might well think that to be the business of the authorities, given that you might still be under the influence the following day. Some employers would dispense with your services just in case. Or suppose one of your kids came home from school after a lesson about Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton et al and you suggested that those people might not be the best thing since sliced bread as he had been told. The tot will of course be appalled that you are such a fanatical racist and pass your thoughts on, and your heresy might go on your medical records as a "mental illness". Then if you are required to take a medical for your job or a security clearance or whatever, you will fail for undisclosed reasons. |
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doc_ido
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:38 am Post subject: |
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And at the other extreme, you have people ignoring serious crimes (typically assaults) and a generation of kids growing up knowing that their actions won't have any consequences because nobody will tell on them. I think that this is exemplified in the spate of "happy slapping" attacks we had a couple of years ago, where teenagers were so confident of not being reported that they would record themselves beating someone up and post it on the net.
Personally, I believe that a lot of these problems (at both extremes) could be addressed with a stronger sense of community - which, sadly, the local councils aren't exactly helping to foster. |
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