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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
What an obnoxious post. |
Yes. |
Seconded.
But obnoxiousness certainly doesn't decrease the truth content. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: |
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I guess I'm with Dawkins on this. There are no Catholic children, Islamic children and Potestant children anymore than there are conservative or liberal children. Children are children and their minds should be able to develop without the influence of religion whether by indoctrination or by people like me ranting on about how there is no God.
I have two kids, and they've never heard the words God, Jesus or religion from my mouth. I will save that until they are old enough to be largely immune from parental brainwashing. I'll tell them what I believe and teach them critical thinking, but if they want to go to church it's their choice.
It has occured to me that I could give my children strong faith in anything that I liked. Better to let them be kids IMO. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| OneWayTraffic wrote: |
I guess I'm with Dawkins on this. There are no Catholic children, Islamic children and Potestant children anymore than there are conservative or liberal children. Children are children and their minds should be able to develop without the influence of religion whether by indoctrination or by people like me ranting on about how there is no God.
I have two kids, and they've never heard the words God, Jesus or religion from my mouth. I will save that until they are old enough to be largely immune from parental brainwashing. I'll tell them what I believe and teach them critical thinking, but if they want to go to church it's their choice.
It has occured to me that I could give my children strong faith in anything that I liked. Better to let them be kids IMO. |
The way I look at it is that you are indoctrinating your children with your own religion. Regardless, if your indoctrination isn't hateful or racist then it should be allowed. However, yours is bordering on hatred since you are suggesting I should be forced to be a follower of your religion.
And I guess this is the crux of the argument; universities should be allowed to accept students based upon their education. Let the market decide the winners. Keep the government and it's regulations out. If evolutionists are the most intelligent and understand the universe the best then the market trends will improve their position. However, on the other hand intelligent design is the truth then the market will be the most favorable to it. If universities want to be intolerant to truth, then eventually they will undermine their own future.
Harvard, once a Christian university with Christian tenets, is moving further and further to the left. It will eventually become a nominal uni. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Harvard, once a Christian university with Christian tenets, is moving further and further to the left. It will eventually become a nominal uni. |
It will be a university in name only, not really a university? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Harvard, once a Christian university with Christian tenets, is moving further and further to the left. It will eventually become a nominal uni. |
It will be a university in name only, not really a university? |
Personally, I believe that it continues to move towards human secularism it will eventually ruin its reputation as one of the world's great universities. Already, the board is being run by liberal activists who are being motivated by principles not fitting for a school of its reputation. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Already, the board is being run by liberal activists who are being motivated by principles not fitting for a school of its reputation. |
Like what? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The first hints that Summers might have to resign under faculty pressure came in January 2005 when opposition to him crystallized around remarks he made at an economics conference in Cambridge. He implied that women obtained fewer high-level positions in the sciences and engineering because of a possible lack of "intrinsic aptitude." |
http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/02/22/news/14562.shtml
One instance. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| it's full of stars wrote: |
| I like this. Can't wait until a teacher: Christian, Jew or Muslim, gets pulled out of school in handcuffs for teaching the word of God. |
right, and the american president who says "there is no god" wins the election..
I wonder if they will inpeach OBAMA or Mccain next year for believing in god?
just a thought.. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| OneWayTraffic wrote: |
I guess I'm with Dawkins on this. There are no Catholic children, Islamic children and Potestant children anymore than there are conservative or liberal children. Children are children and their minds should be able to develop without the influence of religion whether by indoctrination or by people like me ranting on about how there is no God.
I have two kids, and they've never heard the words God, Jesus or religion from my mouth. I will save that until they are old enough to be largely immune from parental brainwashing. I'll tell them what I believe and teach them critical thinking, but if they want to go to church it's their choice.
It has occured to me that I could give my children strong faith in anything that I liked. Better to let them be kids IMO. |
I'm a bit ambivalent about Dawkins's position on this, as somehow it seems contradictory the idea of freedom of action to ban teaching of religion to children, but I am sympathetic to his (and your) viewpoint...those pictures of Middle Eastern religious fanatics dressing their kids up as terrorists and putting rifles in their hands, or pictures of kids at 'Jesus camps' are a gross offense to common sense and an abuse of children. Children should be free to develop their minds, character and sense of right and wrong without the stultifying and oppressive indoctrination of religion
I also think it is grossly damaging to a child's development to teach them that they cannot live with a sense of morality and values in the absence of a religion. Part of the problem is that many religions see children as 'raw material' for perpetuating traditions and beliefs, not as beings that have a right to choice and to their own development as free, independent beings. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| If universities want to be intolerant to truth, then eventually they will undermine their own future. |
Odd how they teach all that evolution and big bang stuff and flourish. And those like Bob Jones University do squat all. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Harvard, once a Christian university with Christian tenets, is moving further and further to the left. It will eventually become a nominal uni. |
You forgot to use the words 'liberal' and 'elitist'. |
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greedy_bones
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: |
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I'd have to agree with making schools teach certain subjects and meet certain requirements. Schools should not be able to teach creation because it is wrong.
However, if a school teaches the bible/koran/torah as fact, as long as it's not a public school, then I'm ok with it. If a parent wants to send their child to a religious school, that's their choice, but children do have a right to an adequate education. There are plenty of decent catholic schools which both teach the bible and real science. |
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greedy_bones
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Also, while I like Dawkins, I don't really follow the whole calling a kid a moslem, christian or jew as child abuse argument. Children generally have the same viewpoints as their parents on most things. I remember thinking that the first Gulf war was bad and that Dan Quayle was an idiot when I was 8 years old. Granted, I still believe those two things, but at the time, there wasn't a lot of reasoning behind it, just what my mother had told me.
Also, in some cases, religion and race use the same name. I for one, consider myself a jew because my family is jewish, has jewish customs and have jewish physical traits. I have no faith in judaism, but I consider myself a jew.
The only real abuse I see in bringing up a kid in your faith are in two other areas. One is the idea of telling your little kids that they are sinners and that they are likely to be tortured for the rest of eternity. The other comes from random fundamentalist or cult practices like letting David Koresh have his way with kids or not taking them to a doctor when they're in serious need of medicine. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| OneWayTraffic wrote: |
I guess I'm with Dawkins on this. There are no Catholic children, Islamic children and Potestant children anymore than there are conservative or liberal children. Children are children and their minds should be able to develop without the influence of religion whether by indoctrination or by people like me ranting on about how there is no God.
I have two kids, and they've never heard the words God, Jesus or religion from my mouth. I will save that until they are old enough to be largely immune from parental brainwashing. I'll tell them what I believe and teach them critical thinking, but if they want to go to church it's their choice.
It has occured to me that I could give my children strong faith in anything that I liked. Better to let them be kids IMO. |
However, yours is bordering on hatred since you are suggesting I should be forced to be a follower of your religion.
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Where did I say that you should be forced to be a follower of my religion? I don't have a religion. I said that IMO children should be kept free of any kind of religion until they have had the chance to grow as independent beings. I'm aware that this would pose challenges for your religion, but it would also pose challenges for all those other false ones too right? Why should people feel that they have the right to choose as important a thing as beliefs for their children?
| Quote: |
And I guess this is the crux of the argument; universities should be allowed to accept students based upon their education. Let the market decide the winners. Keep the government and it's regulations out. If evolutionists are the most intelligent and understand the universe the best then the market trends will improve their position. However, on the other hand intelligent design is the truth then the market will be the most favorable to it. If universities want to be intolerant to truth, then eventually they will undermine their own future.
Harvard, once a Christian university with Christian tenets, is moving further and further to the left. It will eventually become a nominal uni. |
This is actually happening right now. Universitys are rejecting some christian schools science courses, not because of the religious content, but because it is totally inadequate at teaching what is basic accepted science. Free market at work. |
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greedy_bones
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
Don't they do this already with SAT/ACT exams in the US and other entrance exams around the world? Yes, they do. I could spit out the evolution lie as well as anyone, which allowed me to do well on my exams. |
No, not really. The SAT consists of math, critical reading and writing. The one I took consisted of Math and Verbal sections. Evolution never came up because science was never on the test. If you take a biology subject test, they have evolution questions, but that is because it is part of modern biology.
The ACT has a science reasoning section, but that deals with interpreting data, not knowledge of current theories. |
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