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| Which one has the most experience? |
| Obama |
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75% |
[ 25 ] |
| Palin |
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24% |
[ 8 ] |
| I don't know |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 33 |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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 Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| aarontendo wrote: |
| So are we saying that we can't vote in politicians from smaller states? I guess we should just stick to people from Texas that's worked well thus far. |
When you're speaking of executive experience the number of employees and size of that which you are in charge of, be it business or state or campaign, is significant. I've run a business with twenty employees. Is that enough executive experience to be President? Wouldn't you rather have someone who had experience running a business with one hundred employees? ect.
Also, if you don't think the person "From Texas" has worked out so well why are you defending McCain's ticket? McCain's plan is to do more of what Bush has done, and do it with even more of an idealogical zeal. The McCain of 2008 is not the McCain of 2000.
| aarontendo wrote: |
Palin has her state for two years time, led her town before that. Obama has led...some classroom lectures and polls.
Anytime people point out her lack of experience I sorta laugh, she's running for VP which is a glorified training position. I would hope Obama would have more experience than her, since he'll be calling all the shots. Sad fact is, he is pretty damn light in the experience department.
If we're going to vote for someone based purely on experience I don't think Obama's got much of a chance. |
Palin took office in January of 2007, that's not two years.
As far as Palin's experience running her TOWN, see the argument above, or check this out...
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=184082
Jump to the second commercial break, about 9:30. Rove does a great job of being a hypocrite in that he in one moment says that Palin is qualified, then is shown condemning the possible choice of Tim Caine as Obama's VP, based on the fact that Caine's mayoral experience was too limitied. Kind of takes the wind out of the sails, don't it?
You know what, just watch the whole second section of that show. It's the most brilliant bit of political journalism/comedy I've seen in this entire political season. Though in fairness the writers didn't have to do much, the Rep talking heads pretty much did all their work for them. |
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Gollywog
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Debussy's brain
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Sheeeeit! I don't give a good goddamm about f--king EXPERIENCE.
Hasn't anyone every heard of the Peter Principle?
There's PLENTY of people with TONS of EXPERIENCE who don't know their ass from their elbow.
Now, class, anyone ever work for someone like that????
The important thing for a President is not experience by JUDGMENT.
Right?
There have been presidents who study issues to death, and there have been presidents who can't make it through a one page memo. Heck, George Bush can't even make it through a one-paragraph memo. He lets other people do the thinking for him.
I want a president who can absorb a lot of information, not too little, not too much, in a reasonable amount of time, without being too hasty. And I want a president who listens to conflicting opinions, as many as necessary. And I want a president who takes a reasonable amount of time to weigh the options, and then MAKE A DECISION.
And, most of all, I want a president who makes the right decision, even when I don't know what the right decision is. In other words, I want someone I can trust.
I do not want someone whose life is governed by a few simplistic rules, and instead of thinking, simply applies those rules to every new situation they encounter. But I do not want someone who is totally without principles, either. Principles are not too complicated when it comes to the presidency: You just do what's right, which, as I see it, is a matter of acting in the interests of the country, not just for today, but for the long term, too. Acting in your own interests, or in the interests of your buddies, or of the people who give you money, is a violation of that trust. It is not so complicated.
Yes, we have had such presidents. And we can have them again, if we, as citizens, act with some of the same propriety we expect of our presidents. This means not demanding that they bow to every interest group WE belong to. NOBODY can make EVERYBODY happy all at the same time, not even God, and certainly not the President. When a President tries, all you get is policies the consistency of instant oatmeal.
Want a good President of the United States?
Elect a good person and give them a mandate to do what's right.
We still need a vigorous public debate on the issues, but we need to stop SHOUTING. And when the debate is over, we need to stop hating each other.
So why is this not working?
Because some people DON'T WANT GOOD GOVERNMENT. They just want what they want, and they want it NOW! And if they don't get it, they will start SCREAMING. Or, in the case of interest groups, make life VERY UNCOMFORTABLE for the person in office, especially at election time.
All I can say is if we Americans ever get a good President again, be VERY grateful, because it will be more than we deserve.
And if we get another failed presidency, it WILL be what we deserve.
Education is more important than experience. It doesn't have to all be from a school, and shouldn't be. But some formal education in things like economics, political science and history certainly can be useful. You need someone who enjoys lifelong learning, and who has had to grapple with these issues on the job before running for President.
If you think you can thrust someone into the Presidency in the year 2009 unprepared, with no detailed understanding of the many complex problems we face, you are a TOTAL FOOL. All you will get is a figurehead, a marionette manipulated by someone behind the scenes. Sound familiar?
Experience? I know plenty of people who spend their lives cultivating their resumes, and many of them are TOTAL IMBECILES.
Which candidate has the most experience?
You want experience? Go pick up a hoe on 42nd Street.
Or knock on the door of any suite along K Street.
Speaking of Washington, here's a guy with experience: Senator Larry Craig.
| Quote: |
Including his service in the House of Representatives, Craig is the second-longest serving member of the United States Congress in Idaho history |
And he's STILL THERE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_craig
Now, why didn't John McCain pick Larry Craig to be his running mate if he thinks experience is so important?
Need experience?
| Quote: |
Monumental Opportunity
My Washington, DC office needs interns who are hardworking, independent, and resourceful team-players who share my political philosophy. |
http://www.senate.gov/~craig/internships.cfm
That's not all you are likely to share.
F*&K EXPERIENCE! |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
It depends on how you define experience. Is running a campaign for two years executive experience? Do you take into account the size of Alaska's population when taking into account Palin's experience? Are we talking specifically about 'executive' experience, or about foreign policy experience? What about experience examining the issues that face our country?
In terms of experience needed to be President Obama wins as he's been preparing for the job for several years and Palin has been the head of one of the third smallest state in terms of population in the nation.
Would you really want Palin to be President? |
If you review video from the 1960 convention where Kennedy defends his lack of experience, even in the face of Truman asking the Senator to "step down", JFK reminds me of Obama in that his confidence and tone sound like someone who could succeed in the position.
Regarding JFK's competence while in office; Robert Dallek thought that Kennedy did a competent job while in office.
Robert Dallek
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Robert Dallek (born May 16, 1934) is a prominent American historian with a specialism of American Presidents. He is a Professor of History at Boston University and has previously taught at Columbia University, UCLA and Oxford. He has won the Bancroft Prize and numerous other awards for scholarship and teaching.
Contents [hide]
1 Early life
2 Academic career
3 Published Works
3.1 Books
3.2 Journal Articles
3.3 Essays in Edited Volumes
4 TV appearances
5 References
6 External links
[edit] Early life
He attended the University of Illinois, graduating with a B.A. in history in June 1955. He then spent several years at Columbia University, gaining an M.A. in February 1957 and his Ph.D in June 1964. While studying for his Ph.D he also taught classes as an Instructor of History at Columbia until 1964.
[edit] Academic career
From 1964 until 1994 he advanced from Assistant to Full Professor of History at UCLA. By the year 1966 however he became a Graduate Advisor in the department of History at UCLA and served in that position for two years. From 1972 to 1974 he served as Vice Chairman of the Department of History at UCLA. For a time he was at the Southern California Psychoanalytic Institute as Research Associate, from 1981-1985. In 1993 he was a visiting professor at the California Institute of Technology and from 1994 to 1995 he was the Harmsworth Visiting Professor at the University of Oxford. In 1995 he was awarded an honorary M.A. by Oxford University for his work there. Since 1996 he has been a Visiting Professor at the LBJ School of Public Affairs, University of Texas. From 1996 he was a Professor of History at Boston University. |
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aarontendo
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Location: Daegu-ish
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
Also, if you don't think the person "From Texas" has worked out so well why are you defending McCain's ticket? McCain's plan is to do more of what Bush has done, and do it with even more of an idealogical zeal. The McCain of 2008 is not the McCain of 2000.
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Not defending McCain's ticket so much as saying that Obama people pointing out her lack of experience is laughable as hell. As I stated earlier, she's running for VP. If we're going to vote based on experience I really don't think Obama's got a chance in hell.
| aarontendo wrote: |
Palin has her state for two years time, led her town before that. Obama has led...some classroom lectures and polls.
Anytime people point out her lack of experience I sorta laugh, she's running for VP which is a glorified training position. I would hope Obama would have more experience than her, since he'll be calling all the shots. Sad fact is, he is pretty damn light in the experience department.
If we're going to vote for someone based purely on experience I don't think Obama's got much of a chance. |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
Palin took office in January of 2007, that's not two years.
As far as Palin's experience running her TOWN, see the argument above, or check this out...
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Ah ok, so she only has a year and some change over Obama on experience.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't agree with her politics at all. I can honestly say that I'm voting the Obama/Biden ticket just because I think the two of them together bring more to the table. But if Obama/Biden wants to go after her, then they should go after her politics and not her lack of experience. |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
But if Obama/Biden wants to go after her, then they should go after her politics and not her lack of experience. |
That won't be difficult.
Some cheeseheads weighed in on the situation:
CEDARBURG, Wisc. -- Hundreds of angry people in this small town outside Milwaukee taunted reporters and TV crews traveling with Sen. John McCain on Friday, chanting "Be fair!" and pointing fingers at a pack of journalists as they booed loudly.
On the first leg of the "McCain Street USA" tour -- which will take the Republican presidential nominee and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, to small towns across the heartland -- the 30 or so reporters and crew were walking back to their buses to join the McCain motorcade when hundreds of townspeople started yelling.
"Stop lying! You are all liars! Tell the truth!" one woman yelled from the front of the pack.
The crowd was not menacing or threatening, but was clearly angry.
"You're telling lies! Stop the lies!" one man yelled. Asked why the crowd was so angry, Linda J. Green of Mequon, Wisc., said: "I'm thinking the press is very biased."
"I think the press is very liberal and very slanted against the McCain-Palin ticket. Would you ask a man if his kids were being taken care of while he's out campaigning?"
She said the coverage of Mrs. Palin is flat-out sexist. "The media has called her a sexy librarian look. Would you say that Obama is a sexy Will Smith look? They called her Tina Fey's sister, only sexier. I think you're being very sexist."
Another woman questioned local television coverage, which differed for the Republican and Democratic party conventions, she said.
"Why did the networks not carry the Republican convention, when they carried the Democratic convention?" she asked. "They do it because they're liberal," a man chimed in.
The scene was reminiscent of one that occurred spontaneously at the RNC, when Mrs. Palin accused political pundits and columnists of misinformation. With thousands of red-meat Republicans in the huge Xcel Center in Minneapolis, the crowd turned ugly. Hundreds began pointing at a group of reporters and booing -- some chanted "CNN!" while others yelled "MSNBC!" |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
It depends on how you define experience. Is running a campaign for two years executive experience? Do you take into account the size of Alaska's population when taking into account Palin's experience? Are we talking specifically about 'executive' experience, or about foreign policy experience? What about experience examining the issues that face our country?
In terms of experience needed to be President Obama wins as he's been preparing for the job for several years and Palin has been the head of one of the third smallest state in terms of population in the nation.
Would you really want Palin to be President? |
Running for President is a whole lot different than running a state.
I give Palin the click for more experience, here's why; http://sharprightturn.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/palin-vs-obama-lets-talk-about-experience-and-background-shall-we/
It should be interesting to see how he faces a Bill O Reilly frontal assault. |
Was that link meant to be ironic? |
Yep. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: |
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I dont think anyone has experience to be president. Its one of those jobs where you cant learn it in a book before hand . its trial an , well, you only get 1 or 2 shots at it..
if it is based on who would make a better CEO.. then perhaps someone should call Jack Welch up to the plate! hahahaha
there are far more experienced people than these two.. but those people didnt have the money to run!
Anyway IM hoping an OBAMA win.. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| aarontendo wrote: |
| Palin has her state for two years time, led her town before that. |
I come from a small town. Our mayor is a nice, competent woman. I would not put her in the oval office two years from now. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
| aarontendo wrote: |
| Palin has her state for two years time, led her town before that. |
I come from a small town. Our mayor is a nice, competent woman. I would not put her in the oval office two years from now. |
| Quote: |
| Of course, this ignores the fact that Mrs. Palin is now governor. She manages an $11 billion operating budget, a $1.7 billion capital expenditure budget, and nearly 29,000 full- and part-time state employees. In two years as governor, she's vetoed over $499 million from Alaska's capital budget -- more money than Mr. Obama is likely to spend on his entire campaign. |
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122108935141721343.html?mod=todays_columnists |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| I think that Palin (aptly nicknamed "baracuda") clearly has more experience being a nasty bitch. |
For all I know you might be an admirer, and you are out to help her get the nasty-bitch-lover's vote ... still, it was ugly talk when people did this to Hillary, ugly when they did it to Michelle Obama and Nancy Pelosi, and it's still very low, and mean-spirited now, especially considering you give no precise examples of her bitchiness.
itaewonguy
| Quote: |
| I dont think anyone has experience to be president. [...]there are far more experienced people than these two.. |
Kind of strange to be comparing the resumes of a vp candidate with that of the assumptive prez, but here goes ...
(Found this on a highly partisan political site, and obviously it's skewed a bit, so if anyone can find inaccuracies in the record of these people, feel free to pipe up.)
* * *
Obama: Works his way up from Occidental College, L.A., to Columbia University.
Palin: Works her way from Hawaii Pacific University to Northern Idaho College to University of Idaho.
* * *
Obama in 1983: hired at graduation by B.I.C., N.Y., as research associate of financial services.
Palin in 1984: loses Miss Alaska contest, though given Miss Congeniality title
* * *
Obama 1985-1988: quits corporate job, joins public interest groups in NY and CHI.
- Director of Developing Communities in Chicago, directs staff of 13, hundreds of volunteers.
- Instructor at the Gamaliel Foundation, to promote community organizations.
Palin 1985-1988: works her way from Hawaii Pacific University to Northern Idaho College to University of Idaho.
* * *
Obama 1988: Accepted by Harvard Law School.
- Brought national attention as first black president of Harvard Law Review,
- Graduates Magna Cum Laude.
Palin 1988: Hired by Anchorage TV station KTUU as intermittent sportscaster.
* * *
Obama: Marries Michelle in planned wedding after three year courtship, first child Malia born six years later.
Palin: Elopes with high school sweetheart soon after coming home from college, gives birth eight months later.
* * *
Obama 1992: Recruited by University of Chicago to teach Constitutional Law,
- Chooses to work at a small civil rights boutique firm,
- Runs "Project Vote" helping to register over 100,000 new Illinois voters,
- Profiles as one of the "40 under forty" most successful by Crain's Chicago Business Journal.
Palin 1992: No longer sportscasting.
- Helps out at her husband's family fishing business.
- Joins city council following discussions in an aerobics class as to whether town of less than 5000 needs a police department (see Time Magazine, Sept 2, 2008).
* * *
Obama 1992-1996: continues to teach Constitutional Law and practice privately.
- Writes memoir, "Dreams of My Father", published by Random House.
Palin 1992-1996: Wasilla city council,
- Discusses the placement of stop signs, whether to allow a liquor license on Parks Highway.
- Oldest son Track begins playing hockey, officially becomes hockey mom.
-Mayor John Stein supports Palin's council membership
* * *
Obama 1996-2004: elected to Illinois state legislature, district population 250,000, state population 13,000,000.
- regularly receives 40,000 votes
-votes on over 3000 state initiatives, reserves judgement on about 110
Palin 1996-2002: elected Wasilla town mayor, population now over 6500.
- Gets 907 votes
- Gets Republican party support for traditional non-partisian contest, crushes former supporter John Stein
- Still discussing stop signs and liquor licenses. Funds and opens sports center.
- number of liquor licenses awarded and stop signs placed not readily available. Probably a couple hundred material decisions made.
- Joins Republican women leadership group run by Ted Stevens,
- Hires lobbying firm to capture federal earmarks, very successful in 2000 with $27 Million
* * *
Obama: Loses Democratic congressional primary in 2000, gets 29,649 votes.
Palin: Loses Republican Lt. Governor's primary in 2002, gets 19,114 votes.
- Refuses to support mother-in-law running for her mayor's position.
* * *
Obama 2004: Elected U.S. Senate
- Gets 3,571,000 votes
Palin 2003: Accepts position on Oil and Gas Board from Frank Murkowski.
- Quits 11 months later.
* * *
Obama 2006: devises primary campaign that defeats heavily favored Hilary Clinton.
- Gets 17,869,000 votes
- Regularly meets with teams of advisors, over 200 in all, on foriegn policy and economics.
Palin 2006: Elected governor of Alaska,
- Gets 114,695 votes.
- Crushes former supporter Frank Murkowski
- Licenses the rights to build a pipeline that probably will not be built.
- Fails to sell jet on Ebay.
- Tells Anchorage Daily News she wants US taxpayers to fund "bridge to nowhere". She refuses to build bridge out her own state funds.
* * *
Obama's family plan 2006-2008: Barack campaigns and serves senate duties full-time
- Michelle home with kids, has caretaking help, works part-time.
Palin's family plan: Sarah serves as Governor, runs for vice-president, presumably full-time.
- Todd still taking jobs and racing snowmobiles for weeks and months away from family, states refusal to be a stay home dad.
- No caretaking arrangement has been made public.
- Track still playing hockey, joins the Army.
- Bristol becomes a teenager, gets pregnant.
- Newborn with disabilities
* * *
Obama 2008: Democratic nominee, President. A well-ordered mind.
Palin 2008: Republican nominee, Vice-President. Steeped in chaos. |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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it's good to see it as a timeline. Looks way more impressive for Obama. But being Governor, it should have given her more credit for that.
Also, what's up with the last line?
| Quote: |
Palin's family plan: Sarah serves as Governor, runs for vice-president, presumably full-time.
- Todd still taking jobs and racing snowmobiles for weeks and months away from family, states refusal to be a stay home dad.
- No caretaking arrangement has been made public.
- Track still playing hockey, joins the Army.
- Bristol becomes a teenager, gets pregnant.
- Newborn with disabilities |
That's pretty messed up. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| That's pretty messed up. |
I can't speak for the intentions of the compiler, but I've seen some conservatives mumble reservations that she can't possibly be devoting all the energies to motherhood that the hand dealt to her would seem to require, and most would say that a child born with Down's wouldn't leave much time for anything else, really - I've heard some liberals mutter under their breath about the same, that the daughter's pregancy out of wedlock might be further indication of putting career before family, and the hypocrisy of espousing a conservative social agenda that seeks to eliminate safety nets for families under stress ...
I don't think anything to do with her family needs to concern me as a voter, though, except that suddenly one day, when the country might need her to stand up and do something of the job she was given, then maybe THEN the family strangeness could be a distraction, at just the wrong moment ...
Like I said, the family stuff is irrelevant compared to the rest. I'm standing with those who say McCain made a poor choice for the job. Looks to me like she just ain't got the chops ... |
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