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John McCain Rising...
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Kikomom



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Elite means someone that we admire for their accomplishments and their lifestyle. Elitist is someone we resent for their accomplishments and their lifestyle.

Not at all. But I do not see the point in attempting to straighten you guys out on this further.

Why not, instead, just test yourselves?

Alright Plebians, you ready for this?
Quote:

Politics and Culture Guru

From Timbuktu to Tijuana, you know all about world culture and politics. You've seen it all, and what you haven't seen, you watched on one of the "smart people channels." Your friends tell you that you should run for governor.
What people love: You've always got a great story to tell.
What people hate: You make them feel like ignorant plebians. Sometimes you slip and CALL them plebians.

Now what was that you needed straightened out on again? Laughing
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The FT piece. Excellent IMO.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f1984d88-7cd5-11dd-8d59-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

Quote:
Democrats must learn some respect

This article is not the first to note the cultural contradiction in American liberalism, but just now the point bears restating. The election may turn on it.

Democrats speak up for the less prosperous; they have well-intentioned policies to help them; they are disturbed by inequality, and want to do something about it. Their concern is real and admirable. The trouble is, they lack respect for the objects of their solicitude. Their sympathy comes mixed with disdain, and even contempt.

Democrats regard their policies as self-evidently in the interests of the US working and middle classes. Yet those wide segments of US society keep helping to elect Republican presidents. How is one to account for this? Are those people idiots? Frankly, yes � or so many liberals are driven to conclude. Either that or bigots, clinging to guns, God and white supremacy; or else pathetic dupes, ever at the disposal of Republican strategists. If they only had the brains to vote in their interests, Democrats think, the party would never be out of power. But again and again, the Republicans tell their lies, and those stupid damned voters buy it.

It is an attitude that a good part of the US media share. The country has conservative media (Fox News, talk radio) as well as liberal media (most of the rest). Curiously, whereas the conservative media know they are conservative, much of the liberal media believe themselves to be neutral.

Their constant support for Democratic views has nothing to do with bias, in their minds, but reflects the fact that Democrats just happen to be right about everything. The result is the same: for much of the media, the fact that Republicans keep winning can only be due to the backwardness of much of the country.

Because it was so unexpected, Sarah Palin�s nomination for the vice-presidency jolted these attitudes to the surface. Ms Palin is a small-town American. It is said that she has only recently acquired a passport. Her husband is a fisherman and production worker. She represents a great slice of the country that the Democrats say they care about � yet her selection induced an apoplectic fit.

For days, the derision poured down from Democratic party talking heads and much of the media too. The idea that �this woman� might be vice-president or even president was literally incomprehensible. The popular liberal comedian Bill Maher, whose act is an endless sneer at the Republican party, noted that John McCain�s case for the presidency was that only he was capable of standing between the US and its enemies, but that should he die he had chosen �this stewardess� to take over. This joke was not � or not only � a complaint about lack of experience. It was also an expression of class disgust. I give Mr Maher credit for daring to say what many Democrats would only insinuate.

Little was known about Ms Palin, but it sufficed for her nomination to be regarded as a kind of insult. Even after her triumph at the Republican convention in St Paul last week, the put-downs continued. Yes, the delivery was all right, but the speech was written by somebody else � as though that is unusual, as though the speechwriter is not the junior partner in the preparation of a speech, and as though just anybody could have raised the roof with that text. Voters in small towns and suburbs, forever mocked and condescended to by metropolitan liberals, are attuned to this disdain. Every four years, many take their revenge.

The irony in 2008 is that the Democratic candidate, despite Republican claims to the contrary, is not an elitist. Barack Obama is an intellectual, but he remembers his history. He can and does connect with ordinary people. His courteous reaction to the Palin nomination was telling. Mrs Palin (and others) found it irresistible to skewer him in St Paul for �saying one thing about [working Americans] in Scranton, and another in San Francisco�. Mr Obama made a bad mistake when he talked about clinging to God and guns, but I am inclined to make allowances: he was speaking to his own political tribe in the native idiom.

The problem in my view is less Mr Obama and more the attitudes of the claque of official and unofficial supporters that surrounds him. The prevailing liberal mindset is what makes the criticisms of Mr Obama�s distance from working Americans stick.

If only the Democrats could contain their sense of entitlement to govern in a rational world, and their consequent distaste for wide swathes of the US electorate, they might gain the unshakeable grip on power they feel they deserve.
Winning elections would certainly be easier � and Republicans would have to address themselves more seriously to economic insecurity. But the fathomless cultural complacency of the metropolitan liberal rules this out.

The attitude that expressed itself in response to the Palin nomination is the best weapon in the Republican armoury. Rely on the Democrats to keep it primed. You just have to laugh.

The Palin nomination could still misfire for Mr McCain, but the liberal reaction has made it a huge success so far. To avoid endlessly repeating this mistake, Democrats need to learn some respect.

It will be hard. They will have to develop some regard for the values that the middle of the country expresses when it votes Republican. Religion. Unembarrassed flag-waving patriotism. Freedom to succeed or fail through one�s own efforts. Refusal to be pitied, bossed around or talked down to. And all those other laughable redneck notions that made the United States what it is.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Effete Liberals and the people they condescend to

Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote:
On Dave's suggestion, I read my colleague Clive Crook's piece in the Financial Times on the Democratic Party's problems with the working class. I found it interesting, but ultimately wanting for specifics. Clive argues that basically liberals think they have the best interest of the working class at heart, and yet they routinely talk down to said working class, who in turn punish Democratic candidates at the ballot box every four years. This is hard for me to take for a couple reasons. First off, I'm black and grew up in a working class community, and I never heard anyone complain about presidential candidates talking down to them. I'm willing to allow that my experiences are atypical, though.

Still, whenever I hear these charges of liberal condescension they're almost always accompanied by what I would very generously call a sprinkling of examples. Clive only gives us a routine by comedian Bill Maher. For this to stick, I'd need to hear about Walter Mondale's condescension to working class voters, or Jimmy Carter's. It's true I hear a lot of Republicans invoking that charge, but I rarely hear actual examples. Interestingly enough, Clive doesn't believe that Obama fits the bill--and yet that's exactly how Karl Rove chose to paint Obama in his silly "country club" remarks.

I also don't get the idea that anything besides Fox News and talk radio qualifies as liberal media. In my happy home right here at the very prominent Atlantic (if I may say) I believe me and Fallows are the only liberals on the eight man roster. It's true the average big city reporter is unlikely to believe that gay marriage represents a significant threat to marriage itself. But outside of social issues, I'm not sure how liberal your average reporter is. It remains the case that on the essential foreign policy question of this decade, the New York Times (that alleged temple of liberal media bias) basically went along with the Bush program. I'm willing to be convinced on the "liberal media" point and on the "liberal condescension" point, but you'll have to give me some proof to take these ideas out of the "War on Christmas" territory. But just because conservatives say it, doesn't make it true.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a fairly strong attitude of condescension among high profile liberals, thought not necessarily Dem leaders, towards Joe Sixpack. It is the same in Canada. It is really strong in Canada, actually.

The Crook piece may need more detail, as all short opinion farts do, but I think the main idea is correct. It surely has been exploited and built up by the right into a woe is me victim status, but it does exist. I don't know anything about the networks but it would be a hard case to say the media is overwhelmingly liberal. The doc "selling the war" I think proves that nicely.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
There is a fairly strong attitude of condescension among high profile liberals, thought not necessarily Dem leaders, towards Joe Sixpack.


But there's also resentment among the Red States, and resentment need not a cause or much of a spark to make a flame. The US has been burning for sometime, and if you don't think that the election, character, and 70% popularity (among Republicans) of our rebel-in-chief is an indication of a resentment transcending mere leftist origins, well . . .
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
mises wrote:
There is a fairly strong attitude of condescension among high profile liberals, thought not necessarily Dem leaders, towards Joe Sixpack.


But there's also resentment among the Red States, and resentment need not a cause or much of a spark to make a flame. The US has been burning for sometime, and if you don't think that the election, character, and 70% popularity (among Republicans) of our rebel-in-chief is an indication of a resentment transcending mere leftist origins, well . . .


I didn't say that. In actuality, I find some agreement in the natterings of the elitists we're discussing. I find love of country, god and guns (as a value) as silly. Add to that gay rights, abortion etc and I'm a card carrying liberal. I'm merely making a comment about one thing in one context. I do not understand conservatives, truth be told. I do understand liberals.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They will do anything:

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/09/politics/horserace/entry4433099.shtml
Quote:
New McCain Ad: Obama Favors Sex-Ed For Kindergartners

The McCain campaign has released a new ad, "Education," that suggests Barack Obama favors teaching sex education to kindergartners. A McCain aide tells CBS News the ad will air on Fox News and in select markets in Pennsylvania, Iowa, Missouri, Ohio, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

"Education Week says Obama 'hasn't made a significant mark on education,'" an announcer says as the spot opens. "That he's 'elusive' on accountability. A 'staunch defender of the existing public school monopoly.'"

The announcer continues: "Obama's one accomplishment? Legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners. Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family."

Campaign spokesman Robert Gibbs told CBS News the legislation Obama supported provided information to children on what to watch for when with an adult they don't know, such as inappropriate advances or touching.

�It is shameful and downright perverse for the McCain campaign to use a bill that was written to protect young children from sexual predators as a recycled and discredited political attack against a father of two young girls � a position that his friend Mitt Romney also holds," Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton said in a statement. "Last week, John McCain told Time magazine he couldn�t define what honor was. Now we know why."


http://www.newsweek.com/id/158314

The bill tried to teach kids to avoid sexual assault.

Do the Dems have the balls to reciprocate?
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Gollywog



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Debussy's brain

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In November, I'm voting for McCain-Palin, the liar and the lunatic.

Let me explain why.

It is becoming clear from polls that the majority of American voters have learned nothing from the last eight years of the Bush-Cheney administration. They see nothing wrong with America invading a soverign nation based on lies spoken by the President of the United States, who was motivated by personal interest. They do not see anything wrong with an administration that enriches the richest of the rich and powerful corporations with tax cuts, while leaving the American economy in shambles. They do not see anything wrong with a candidate who favors imposing her religious views upon all Americans, even if it means putting them in jail for violating her religious beliefs, including doctors and women who might be raped.

And it appears that all too many Americans have not really learned the lessons of the last 70 years of the civil rights movement, and are only paying it lip service. They do not see anything wrong with voting against a person because he is not white, though most have enough sense not to admit it publicly.

I thought when George Bush took office after essentially stealing the election with the help of conservatives on the U.S. Supreme Court, despite losing the popular vote by a half-million votes, that Americans would at least understand after four years how dangerous a government controlled by a coalition of corporate lobbyists and evangelical Christians could be.

I was wrong.

When Bush was re-elected (or should we say, elected) after smearing a war hero, while he evaded service in Viet Nam, I thought surely the American people would finally learn their lesson after another four years of incompetency. And incompetency squared is what we got, with the Bush administration bungling every problem the country faced.

I was wrong again.

Now the United States and its economy is in such a shambles, and the country saddled with such massive debt, that there is no one, not even Superman, who could bring it back to solvency. And the American people are prepared to support a new president who vows to keep American troops in a futile war in a country where we are not welcome for another century, if necessary, just as the American public re-elected Richard Nixon during the Vietnam War.

If a child uses a baseball bat to main another child, you take away the baseball bat, right? The American people have shown they cannot be trusted to use their tanks and bombs and guns responsibly. And so they should be taken away. The only way to do this is if the United States is so bankrupted that it cannot afford to send a military abroad ever again.

America is already bankrupt, yet it keeps on spending billions of dollars a day on the war in Iraq, putting it on our national credit card. The world needs to take away America's credit card.

Who is providing the credit? The Arabs, to a large extent.

Let the Arabs fight their own wars. Let South Korea defend itself, or join North Korea or ally itself with China, as it wishes. It is apparent that many if not most Koreans do not want American troops here, except to the extent they spend money. Let's leave. And let's leave Japan, while we're at it. They can "protect" Korea if they want to, or go to war over Dokdo, if they want to. Why should the United States care? If North Korea wants to drop an atomic bomb or two on South Korea, why should we care?

By electing an evangelical Christian, and a president who will continue to enrich the rich and bankrupt the rest of us, we will help shred America's credit, and discredit the evangelical lunatics who own John McCain and Sarah Palin. Of course, McCain-Palin will shred the U.S. Constitution in the process, but most Americans have apparently never read it, so who cares.

The Republicans wrecked the United States; let the Republicans clean up the mess.
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Kikomom



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never saw you as a Defeatist, Golly. But on that note... you've been warned, the Republicans are "the party that wrecked America."

I'm sure they'll be ecstatic to have you join in the destruction.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
The bill tried to teach kids to avoid sexual assault.

That's not accurate at all.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:
mises wrote:
The bill tried to teach kids to avoid sexual assault.

That's not accurate at all.


SB99: Course material and instruction shall discuss and provide for the development of positive communication skills to maintain healthy relationships and avoid unwanted sexual activity. ... Course material and instruction shall teach pupils ... how to say no to unwanted sexual advances ... and shall include information about verbal, physical, and visual sexual harassment, including without limitation nonconsensual sexual advances, nonconsensual physical sexual contact, and rape by an acquaintance. The course material and instruction shall contain methods of preventing sexual assault by an acquaintance, including exercising good judgment and avoiding behavior that impairs one's judgment.
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