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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| Resistance to taxation, especially when without representation, is patriotic. |
You are not represented in the Korean National Assembly but you pay Korean taxes.  |
Since I do not hold the country's citizenship, it would not be patriotic for me to resist. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Coxe has no proof that the Fed and Treasury acted in concert to boost financials and sink commodities. |
It's so far over my head I couldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, but that sentence above rang an alarm for me--this theory is in regicide/bacaspar's territory and I don't go there. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| could bring oil down below 40-50bucks |
Are you saying that could happen just as a consequence of the last week, without a major reduction in demand (or a personality implant in the likes of Hugo Chavez, V. Putin and the King of Saudi Arabia)? |
The doubling or tripling of the price of oil was not due to an equivalent, sudden rise in demand. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| Mr. Coxe has no proof that the Fed and Treasury acted in concert to boost financials and sink commodities. |
It's so far over my head I couldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, but that sentence above rang an alarm for me--this theory is in regicide/bacaspar's territory and I don't go there. |
While you have no evidence for your assertion, it would certainly be in Mr. Coxe's territory:
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| Mr. Coxe is no paranoid conspiracy theorist. As the chairman and chief strategist of Harris Investment Management in Chicago, he is one of the most respected investment authorities in North America. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Coxe is no paranoid conspiracy theorist. As the chairman and chief strategist of Harris Investment Management in Chicago, he is one of the most respected investment authorities in North America.
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 Just because a person prefaces a statement with 'it ain't no conspiracy theory' doesn't mean that it isn't in fact a conspiracy theory. It isn't far fetched that someone who has just lost millions and millions looks to place the blame somewhere else. Scapegoating is not an uncommon phenomenon. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Just like calling something as "conspiracy theory" doesn't make it one either. But I'd pit the multiple millions he lost against the hundreds of man won you did. |
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MissSeoul
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere in America
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| RJjr wrote: |
| I wish we would cut spending. But if we're not going to cut spending, we need to raise taxes high enough to pay for all of this bullshit up front. It's definitely unpatriotic to saddle future generations of Americans with debt because we're a bunch of wasteful fatasses. |
No matter what, raising taxes more than what is now is just unfair for working hard middle class, I can't believe how much they take out from my paycheck each month, federal, state, social security, medicare...etc, then IRS say I didn't pay enough income taxes, it's really shame.
Why America doesn't have universal health insurance for every citizen ?
This is one of things I can't understand about America. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| GET THE PRICE OF OIL DOWN, WAY DOWN AND EVERYTHING ELSE WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF. |
I think you'd better start rubbing your magic lamp, Joo. |
Well it was what the US ought be aiming for. Just do that and most all the other problems go away.
That and medical research ought to be at the top of the list for the US. The US doesn't need to do many things only one of two things. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| sojourner1 wrote: |
Paying taxes is patriotic if you have a government that makes decisions in the best interest of it's people and economy. Our US government is only making decisions that only benefit the fat ass suits in the short term by bailing them out of their failed decisions with all the taxes, loans, and the next generations money and resources. We need to stop borrowing from other countries and let the markets be a free market economy like they are supposed to be and live within our means of tax revenues. European countries have high taxes, but it all goes back to the people as socialist support for education, health care, business development, and infrastructure. The only reason why countries like China continue to support our irresponsible economic model is they want their currency to remain artificially devalued so their export to the US remain cheap and in demand. The billionaires around the world are corrupt, manipulate governments, and all in cahoots in what is called, the global economy, the model that will collapse when Uncle Sam can no longer pay for huge boondoggled mistakes. We need to let irresponsible suits fall flat on their faces so that responsible talent can rise through the ranks to be leaders who add value and public revenue to better the general public; not pad the fat rich business executives who are not producing value for our country, economy, and it's people.
By paying taxes in America, you are financing greed, fear, and evil which is why most working people and small business owners today don't believe in paying taxes nor have a sense of patriotism. Paying taxes means you are financing the irresponsbile rich to get richer instead of the money going to schools, infrastructure, technological innovation incubators, and economic development that creates sustainable jobs that take care of people and their families so they can pay more taxes to have even better schools, roads, infrastructure, and everything else that adds value in the long term. America has gone to shit, because it's value is destroyed by the corrupt upper crust. Don't pay any more taxes than necessary if you're not well paid, because it's a tough day and age to be an honest hard working dedicated employee for $15,000 to $30,000 a year. Of course employees are always forced to pay while executives get off from paying by cooking the books with bogus deductions and hiding bonuses overseas.
What will happen when Uncle Sam can no longer subsidize the the wrecked finance boondoggle when China and other countries says no to buying US Treasure notes due to decreasing demand of Chinese exports on account of the Americans not being able to afford to buy all that crap like they've been doing for a decade??? |
Right the government not Al Qaeda is the number one enemy. It is all a conspiracy.
Europe has a terrible future in store for themselves. Their economies will collapse and never recover because of low economic growth and shrinking populations that will not be able to support their grandparents. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Right the government not Al Qaeda is the number one enemy. It is all a conspiracy. |
The government (specifically the CIA) created Al Qaeda. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
I really have no idea how accurate this is. But I do know that hedge funds are leveraged to all hell in the commodity markets. How that plays out I can't guess. In addition, it is now illegal to short financials and at least some of the huge rally we say today was hedge funds covering their shorts. This is just getting too complicated for me. |
But how does that work re: gold? Gold is a commodity, isn't it? Well, it went skyhigh.
Why choose gold and not oil?
But its true, oil was at a $145 high, and is now just rising back up to $100. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
I really have no idea how accurate this is. But I do know that hedge funds are leveraged to all hell in the commodity markets. How that plays out I can't guess. In addition, it is now illegal to short financials and at least some of the huge rally we say today was hedge funds covering their shorts. This is just getting too complicated for me. |
But how does that work re: gold? Gold is a commodity, isn't it? Well, it went skyhigh.
Why choose gold and not oil?
But its true, oil was at a $145 high, and is now just rising back up to $100. |
Gold has a unique relationship with market instability/stability for historical reasons. While it should trade similar to oil, it doesn't.
But the big trade was short dollar/financials and long oil. This was done with trillions in leverage. A huge drop in commodity values is very possible and it will be due to unwinding leverage and not market fundamentals of supply/demand etc. Deflation would expose all these major price increases as fiat creations and nothing more. Everything from university tuition, health care, commodity prices, home values and equity markets. We could see the Rothbardian critique come very true. Or not. I have no idea. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Right the government not Al Qaeda is the number one enemy. It is all a conspiracy. |
The government (specifically the CIA) created Al Qaeda. |
| Quote: |
Whether the al-Qaeda attacks are "blowback" from the American CIA's Operation Cyclone to help the Afghan mujahideen is a matter of some debate. Robin Cook, former member of the British House of Commons and Foreign Secretary from 1997-2001, has written that al-Qaeda and Bin Laden were, "a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies" and that the mujahideen that formed al-Qaeda were "originally ... recruited and trained with help from the CIA".[52]
However, CNN journalist Peter Bergen, known for conducting the first television interview with Osama bin Laden in 1997, calls the idea "that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden ... a folk myth. There's no evidence of this. ... Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently. ... The real story here is the CIA didn't really have a clue about who this guy was until 1996 when they set up a unit to really start tracking him."[53] Bergen and others maintain the U.S. aid was given out by the Pakistan government, that it went to Afghan not foreign mujahideen, and that there was no contact between the Afghan Arabs (foreign mujahideen) and the CIA or other American officials, let alone, arming, training, coaching or indoctrination |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| MissSeoul wrote: |
| No matter what, raising taxes more than what is now is just unfair for working hard middle class, I can't believe how much they take out from my paycheck each month, federal, state, social security, medicare...etc, then IRS say I didn't pay enough income taxes, it's really shame. |
While it is true that taxes are ridiculously high, taxes need to be raised as high as possible to make us have a small taste of the burden we're putting on the backs of future generations of Americans. Then, maybe people would finally be vocal about wasteful spending. Right now, nobody gives a shit since we assume the burden will shouldered by someone else. It's all about, "Me, me, me," in America even though we know damn well we're financially raping future generations of Americans. We just don't care. This is America, where it's all about "me."
| MissSeoul wrote: |
Why America doesn't have universal health insurance for every citizen ?
This is one of things I can't understand about America. |
The American citizens who can't afford health care can't afford to contribute money to politicians, so they're left out. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Right the government not Al Qaeda is the number one enemy. It is all a conspiracy. |
The government (specifically the CIA) created Al Qaeda. |
| Quote: |
Whether the al-Qaeda attacks are "blowback" from the American CIA's Operation Cyclone to help the Afghan mujahideen is a matter of some debate. Robin Cook, former member of the British House of Commons and Foreign Secretary from 1997-2001, has written that al-Qaeda and Bin Laden were, "a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies" and that the mujahideen that formed al-Qaeda were "originally ... recruited and trained with help from the CIA".[52]
However, CNN journalist Peter Bergen, known for conducting the first television interview with Osama bin Laden in 1997, calls the idea "that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden ... a folk myth. There's no evidence of this. ... Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently. ... The real story here is the CIA didn't really have a clue about who this guy was until 1996 when they set up a unit to really start tracking him."[53] Bergen and others maintain the U.S. aid was given out by the Pakistan government, that it went to Afghan not foreign mujahideen, and that there was no contact between the Afghan Arabs (foreign mujahideen) and the CIA or other American officials, let alone, arming, training, coaching or indoctrination |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda |
It is good to see that Cook substantiates my claim, but c'mon, Joo. Is Wikipedia the best you can do to refute it?
It has been established that the CIA edits Wikipedia to their own ends.
Wikipedia 'shows CIA page edits'
CIA, FBI computers used for Wikipedia edits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIoaPqoRD7s |
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