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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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="TexasPete"][
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| Who's been in charge the last 8 years? You're saying the situation and not Bush is the problem, but if the problems happen under his watch and not much gets done to make it better, what's that say about him and his policies? To say the situation and not Bush is the reason for our troubles, completely ignores that this sh!t has happened on his watch and his policies, actions and philosophies have, IMO, caused things to get worse, not better. Yes, the situation is very complex with many nuances, but the problem with Bush and the Republicans is they only see black and white, good and evil, with us or against us--there's no shades of gray or appreciation of the larger picture in their world views. |
What solutions does Obama have for these problems
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| The Republicans/Bush are against welfare for people, but not corporation. They're against socialized medicine, but they've just nationalized the US financial sector, sticking the tax payer with the bill (as if we didn't have enough debt as it is.) They're hypocrites on the biggest stage on Earth yet have managed to fool half the country with slights of hands, misdirection, and smoke and mirrors, saying they've had nothing to do with what's happening. |
I like to pay taxes. but that is just me.
When cooperations have money they hire people. they invest in R&D.They pay taxes. The stockmarket goes up and the govt gets lots of money from capital gains taxes.
If oil were not high the US economy would be booming now and the financial problems would be over in 10 days.
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Now, to answer your other points:
Bush ignored the warnings about AQ the Clinton administration left him prior to 9/11 or failed to do anything about it in the 8 months between his inauguration and the planes hitting the towers. |
9-11 was planned before Bush was in office. The hijackers were even in the US.
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| Bush invaded Iraq, destablilizing the Middle East and pushing the price of oil up. The emerging economies of India and China don't help matters much either and i won't put that blame on Bush. But i still maintain that Bush's/McCain's/Graham's policies of deregulation and neutering of oversight created a situation in which investors could artificially inflate the price of oil by betting on futures, thereby making their bets become reality (the public be damned). If you want more deregulation, less oversight, and less accountability, look at the headlines over the last week for the end result of that doctrine and tell me if the country (or the world) really needs more of that? |
9-11 was the price the US paid for doing nothing about the mideast.
70,000 trained in AQ camps in Afghanistan during the 1990s and almost none of them were from Afghanistan.
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| Bush continuously provoked Russia with the missile shield and encourage of Warsaw Pact countries to join NATO. The real situation is Putin outsmarted him at every turn and Bush played right into his traps and made promises he couldn't deliver (ie Georgia). |
Clinton expanded NATO as much as Bush.
Missle sheild is wrong? NO WAY.
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| If the last 8 years on corruption, scandal, incompetency, religious pandering and undermining of the rule of law hasn't shown you how hollow, empty and merit-less the Republican party's platform was, then nothing can open your eyes. McCain and Palin just represents more of these failed policies. When Bush came to office, he said he was going to change things and he did (he broke the system). McCain is promising the same stuff, but I can't see how he is demonstrably different (well maybe on the environment and green techs, but Bush made similar promises 8 years ago and delivered somewhere along the lines of jack and sh!t). |
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The bottom line is I don't trust the Republicans AT ALL. Their actions speak louder than their words and while their platform and the Contract With America seemed reasonable and promising, what they've done with the power the American people gave them has been anything but. But go on, keep drinking their Kool-aid.
I don't know that the Dems and Obama will do things better, but it would be pretty damn hard to do worse though i must admit i don't know how anyone could fix the mess that is the Bush Legacy. But they'll have my vote because i've seen what the Republicans have done and can do to the country i love and it's time to give the other side the football and see how they run with it |
Bush has had a very bad set of cards.
The question ought to be do the Dems & Obama have an strategy for dealing w/ the problems the US faces. Lets see how they deal with bad luck. |
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TexasPete
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: Koreatown
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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If you like to pay taxes why are you here? As Americans overseas being paid in foreign currency under the value of $87,000/year we owe NOTHING tax-wise. So don't tell me you like to pay taxes when--if you actually live here in Korea--you more than likely aren't paying one red cent to Uncle Sam (though if you have investments or properties in back home, it's a dif story.
The bottom line in this election between you and me is that you're willing to reward bad behavior because you think the other side is even worse. I'm not willing to reward bad behavior on the part of Republicans because i don't think the other side could possibly do any worse.
If the Dems win out and i'm wrong after 4 years, i'll freely admit to it and throw my all into supporting a third party because at that point the choices will be between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Anything will be better than the status-quoe at that juncture.
Personally i think the Libertarians, Constitution Party and Independents should form a coalition and pick one region of the US to concentrate on before trying to go national because they'll never make a dent if they shoot for the stars before they can even get in the air. Or the Republican Party should fracture between actual conservatives and whatever it is Bush and his cronies are (neo-conservative, evangelical panderers). But the Republicans are too good at staying united and on script no matter how much it chaps the a$$ of some of the more independent ones. They may seethe and be furious in private (Dick Army) but in public they're united. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| TexasPete wrote: |
If you like to pay taxes why are you here? As Americans overseas being paid in foreign currency under the value of $87,000/year we owe NOTHING tax-wise. So don't tell me you like to pay taxes when--if you actually live here in Korea--you more than likely aren't paying one red cent to Uncle Sam (though if you have investments or properties in back home, it's a dif story.
The bottom line in this election between you and me is that you're willing to reward bad behavior because you think the other side is even worse. I'm not willing to reward bad behavior on the part of Republicans because i don't think the other side could possibly do any worse.
If the Dems win out and i'm wrong after 4 years, i'll freely admit to it and throw my all into supporting a third party because at that point the choices will be between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Anything will be better than the status-quoe at that juncture.
Personally i think the Libertarians, Constitution Party and Independents should form a coalition and pick one region of the US to concentrate on before trying to go national because they'll never make a dent if they shoot for the stars before they can even get in the air. Or the Republican Party should fracture between actual conservatives and whatever it is Bush and his cronies are (neo-conservative, evangelical panderers). But the Republicans are too good at staying united and on script no matter how much it chaps the a$$ of some of the more independent ones. They may seethe and be furious in private (Dick Army) but in public they're united. |
My point is I don't resent paying taxes to the US goverment. when I paid taxes I didn't feel angry about it. I still pay taxes even now and i don't resent it.
What make you think that the third party has any better answer?
Unless they have a good way to get oil way down they don't have an answer. They are 3rd parties for a reason. I mean to now what 3rd parties do is blame the government for all the problems and pretend that either the enemy doesn't exist, that the US is the party in the wrong or that the government is the real enemy.
The government isn't the solution but it isn't the bad guy and it isn't the enemy.
But if you have that much resentment for the establishment then their is no point in is discussing anything.
But here is an observation - at one time the Nazis were a third party. |
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TexasPete
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: Koreatown
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| TexasPete wrote: |
If you like to pay taxes why are you here? As Americans overseas being paid in foreign currency under the value of $87,000/year we owe NOTHING tax-wise. So don't tell me you like to pay taxes when--if you actually live here in Korea--you more than likely aren't paying one red cent to Uncle Sam (though if you have investments or properties in back home, it's a dif story.
The bottom line in this election between you and me is that you're willing to reward bad behavior because you think the other side is even worse. I'm not willing to reward bad behavior on the part of Republicans because i don't think the other side could possibly do any worse.
If the Dems win out and i'm wrong after 4 years, i'll freely admit to it and throw my all into supporting a third party because at that point the choices will be between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Anything will be better than the status-quoe at that juncture.
Personally i think the Libertarians, Constitution Party and Independents should form a coalition and pick one region of the US to concentrate on before trying to go national because they'll never make a dent if they shoot for the stars before they can even get in the air. Or the Republican Party should fracture between actual conservatives and whatever it is Bush and his cronies are (neo-conservative, evangelical panderers). But the Republicans are too good at staying united and on script no matter how much it chaps the a$$ of some of the more independent ones. They may seethe and be furious in private (Dick Army) but in public they're united. |
My point is I don't resent paying taxes to the US goverment. when I paid taxes I didn't feel angry about it. I still pay taxes even now and i don't resent it.
What make you think that the third party has any better answer?
Unless they have a good way to get oil way down they don't have an answer. They are 3rd parties for a reason. I mean to now what 3rd parties do is blame the government for all the problems and pretend that either the enemy doesn't exist, that the US is the party in the wrong or that the government is the real enemy.
The government isn't the solution but it isn't the bad guy and it isn't the enemy.
But if you have that much resentment for the establishment then their is no point in is discussing anything.
But here is an observation - at one time the Nazis were a third party. |
I don't resent paying taxes either, but i would resent the fact that large portions of my tax money would be going towards paying off the criminally irresponsible actions of the nation's top financial managers--especially when i know that simple oversight, regulation and policing of predatory policies to protect the public could have, many have said, prevented this. But the party in power now took away that oversight and now you, me, our kids and their kids and maybe even their kids will be paying for the mistakes that could have been avoided.
As for third parties, if I go to one group for solutions to problems and they fail me (or cause more) and then i turn to a second group and they disappoint me even more, i'm not going back to the first group. I'll look for any other reasonable alternative. If a third party has a platform i can get behind, I'll ride that train to the bitter end or to the top of a mountain. But the third party is not my first option by a long shot.
You and I have vastly different ideas about what's important to us as Americans. You want security at any price no matter the damage to the rule of law and Constitution which the executive is sworn to uphold and defend so help him/her God (the military has the same or nearly the same oath BTW). I think we can do far more damage to ourselves than AQ can do to us in the name of fear--turning our backs on our civil liberties, letting Bush do warrantless wire tapping, arresting journalists without cause, extra-ordinary rendition, torture of prisoners, preemptive wars, and so forth and so on.
All of those things i've just mentioned were more or less unimaginable before Bush and things that made me proud to be American. You've argued before that the system is antiquated and broken and not suitable to protect us any more and that someone like Bush was needed to run roughshod over everything and to "protect us and our freedoms". I say the system wasn't broke, but the man running it was. The genie is out of the bottle on so many things and lord only knows how we can put it back. I don't think the government is bad or evil necessarily, but i do think the precedents and policies enacted by Bush & Co. have made it easier for government to do bad things legally in the future.
And you're damn right that i resent an establishment which cares more about renaming french fries, "freedom fries" than offering any real solution on the health care crisis. I think everybody should be resentful of a system where we go to war preemptively based on lies and one man's outstanding ability to hoodwink a nation. I think there's good reason to resent what's become of the government at home, but i don't think it's beyond repair. I want a government which plays by the rules and if it's decided we can't get our enemies that way then we legally and lawfully change those rules. Maybe i'm being a hopeless idealist in that respect, but there are mechanisms for change and if we don't have ideals to aspire to, then we'll never be what we can and always wonder why we aren't what we should be.
Finally, i can't believe you Godwinned third parties. Jesus-tap-dancing-Christ. Admittedly it's surprising that it's taken 3 pages to get here, but comparing any third party to the Nazis is irresponsible and a disservice. There's only one third party that's comparable to the Nazis and that's...the American Nazi Party! You can go visit the Southern Poverty Law Center at www.splcenter.org for some info on some real nasty groups and people. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| You want security at any price |
It is not only security it is also justice. Stopping the Bathists, the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists is not only security - it is also justice.
It is not fear , it is worse than that - try revenge and hate.
I hate the enemy. And I don't feel guilty about it. |
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TexasPete
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: Koreatown
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
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| You want security at any price |
It is not only security it is also justice. Stopping the Bathists, the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists is not only security - it is also justice.
It is not fear , it is worse than that - try revenge and hate.
I hate the enemy. And I don't feel guilty about it. |
It's not justice unless the detainees are given fair, transparent trials in accordance with the Geneva Convention, the UN Charter, and the Bill of Rights (well any one of the three will do.) The Nazis (to score another for Godwin) were afforded fair, transparent legal representation at Nuremberg and they were responsible for over 31 million dead people!
If you think i'm all lovey-dovey, cuddly-wuddly with the enemy you've got another thing coming to you. If we go eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, not only will we leave each other blind and toothless, but we'll lose the right to claim we're any better than they.
I want these a$$holes too--either dead on a battlefield or on trial and in prison. |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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So McCrazy's biggest fan has come realize what many have known all along: that he's a craven, self-centered lying golddigger who's more unfit for office than Charles Manson.
And now she's not alone. The kiss-assers at ABC are seeing the light, so to speak.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/21/abc-panel-tears-into-mcca_n_128055.html
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For John McCain, the panel discussion on This Week with George Stephanopoulos could not have been more brutal.
Minutes after conservative columnist George Will declared that the Senator was decidedly un-presidential is his unexpected call for the firing of SEC Chairman Chris Cox, Sam Donaldson, the long-time ABC hand, said that McCain's erratic message on the economy again raised questions about his age.
"I suppose the McCain campaign's hope is that when there's a big crisis, people will go for age and experience," said Will. "The question is, who in this crisis looked more presidential, calm and un-flustered? It wasn't John McCain who, as usual, substituting vehemence for coherence, said 'let's fire somebody.' And picked one of the most experienced and conservative people in the administration, Chris Cox, and for no apparent reason... It was un-presidential behavior by a presidential candidate."
Donaldson then jumped in: "It was two days after the he said the fundamentals of the economy were strong. His talking points have gotten all mixed up. And I think the question of age is back on the table." |
Instead of questioning whether Sen. Obama is ready to lead, people should be questioning whether Sen. McCain is even ready to be a senator. |
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TexasPete
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: Koreatown
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think he's craven; just opportunistic and wishy-washy. Whichever path McCain thinks will help him now, he'll take regardless of his past "principled" stances. I've said it before and i'll say it again: McCain is Gollum and the presidency is his Precious. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| TexasPete wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
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| You want security at any price |
It is not only security it is also justice. Stopping the Bathists, the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists is not only security - it is also justice.
It is not fear , it is worse than that - try revenge and hate.
I hate the enemy. And I don't feel guilty about it. |
It's not justice unless the detainees are given fair, transparent trials in accordance with the Geneva Convention, the UN Charter, and the Bill of Rights (well any one of the three will do.) The Nazis (to score another for Godwin) were afforded fair, transparent legal representation at Nuremberg and they were responsible for over 31 million dead people!
If you think i'm all lovey-dovey, cuddly-wuddly with the enemy you've got another thing coming to you. If we go eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, not only will we leave each other blind and toothless, but we'll lose the right to claim we're any better than they.
I want these a$$holes too--either dead on a battlefield or on trial and in prison. |
Stopping the Al Qaedists , the Bathists , and the Khomeni followers from getting what they want is justice - period. The US will always be right to claim that it is better than the enemy cause the enemy fights for a sinister cause.
Obama has been running for president since he became a senator , his desire to be president isn't for altruistic reasons either. |
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