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Next US invadee: Venezuela?
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Venezuela is screwed. We don't need to worry about it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=arJO.32QvMvU&refer=latin_america
Quote:

Sept. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuela's annual inflation rate accelerated for the eleventh consecutive month, driven by rising food costs, even after the government took steps to drain liquidity and curb price gains in the oil exporting economy.

Consumer prices measured by the central bank's benchmark Caracas index climbed 34.5 percent in August from a year earlier, the fastest pace in more than five years.
Prices advanced 1.7 percent from July, the central bank reported on its Web site.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[bangbayed"]
Quote:
Do you always let fear govern your judgements? I guess when you lack the evidence, you'll resort to weak logic like this.


Not fear , Seen enough of Chavez to know that the US government doesn't owe it to him to tip him off.

Quote:
Can you translate that sentence into English for us? I think I know what you mean, but in the context, it still doesn't make sense.



Bush would not shut down the media

Quote:
Strong argument. Rolling Eyes So's this:


Again Chavez might very well set them up.
[

So what? Bush was joking. You don't see him trying to get elected past term limits. You don't see him start a coup against the US to stay in power.


Quote:
So was Donald Rumsfeld. And how is that relevant? Saddam was a threat because of WMD? Yellowcake? Your point?



1. The US was fighting Khomeni. Khomeni was a fascist bigot.

2.Saddam was still trying to get WMD

3. He was trying to get Yellowcake from Africa too.

http://www.slate.com/id/2139609/

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/713yamai.asp

Quote:
To address your last point (and getting back to the topic), of course I didn't expect Bush to warn Chavez, but then I don't believe Bush really wanted "democracy to flourish" either. So we're agreed.


Bush has no obligation to warn Chavez,

and Chavez since he supports FARC is a threat to democracy. Case closed. So if Bush had told Chavez then others would have suffered cause of FARC . How can someone who supports FARC be a force for democracy?

And Chavez supports enemies of the US another reason not to warn him.



Quote:
The Price of Dissent in Venezuela
Hugo Ch�vez's thugs celebrate their "victory" by shooting my mother. by THOR L. HALVORSSEN

Thursday, August 19, 2004 12:01 A.M. EDT
http://opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005494


After seeing reports like this there is no doubt that Bush was right not to warn Chavez.


Chavez and Mugabe

http://blogs.salon.com/0001330/myImages/2005/10/17/mugiagain.jpg

Chavez and Saddam

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&_/images8/venezuela/saddam_hussein_hugo_chavez.jpe



Chavez and Amadinajad

http://www.knowledgedrivenrevolution.com/Profiles/Iran/Multimedia/Chavez_Ahmadinejad_Crop.JPG
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bangbayed wrote:

Has Chavez set up gulags? Has he set up forced labor camps? Has he outlawed private property? There's plenty of rich folk in Venezuela and they're spending a lot of their money trying to get him out. You can believe what you want, but it's easier to believe the media.

So keep drinking that Kool Aid. Like you said, it's so easy to get.


Yes, I live in the reality-based community. That means that I often do base my opinions off facts presented in the mainstream media.
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blade



Joined: 30 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
Venezuela is screwed. We don't need to worry about it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=arJO.32QvMvU&refer=latin_america
Quote:

Sept. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuela's annual inflation rate accelerated for the eleventh consecutive month, driven by rising food costs, even after the government took steps to drain liquidity and curb price gains in the oil exporting economy.

Consumer prices measured by the central bank's benchmark Caracas index climbed 34.5 percent in August from a year earlier, the fastest pace in more than five years.
Prices advanced 1.7 percent from July, the central bank reported on its Web site.

Mises what was the rate of inflation in Venezuela before Chavez came to power?
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Bush would not shut down the media

Over 40 journalists were arrested while reporting at the Republican National Convention. It appears that Bush and his henchmen have gotten a good headstart that way.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Former Venezuelan Vice President Testifies on Recent Coup Plot

September 18th 2008, by James Suggett - Venezuelanalysis.com

M�rida, September 18, 2008 (venezuelanalysis.com)� In a presentation to the Venezuelan National Assembly (AN) on Wednesday, former Vice-President Jos� Vicente Rangel detailed the results of his ongoing investigations into plots to assassinate President Hugo Ch�vez and overthrow the government.

The testimony was one of several that were programmed by the AN�s special commission to investigate coup plans. The most recent plot was foiled last week when recordings of retired military officers involved in the conspiracy were broadcast on the government television station, VTV.

Rangel, who also served as Ch�vez�s Defense Minister and currently works as an investigative journalist, identified the Venezuelan opposition, the Colombian government, the domestic and international media, and the U.S. government as the four principal agents involved in the coup planning.

The retired military officers who were detained after appearing in the recordings publicized last week have since confirmed their identity in the recordings, Rangel reported. He remarked that this confession contrasts to the adamant denials of those who carried out the two-day coup against President Ch�vez in April 2002.

Nonetheless, Rangel alleged that many of those who are planning the next coup are the same people who planned the last one, with new civilian and military actors on board. One new actor is General Ra�l Isa�as Baduel, a long time Ch�vez ally who organized the counter-coup to bring Ch�vez back to power in April 2002, but allied himself with the opposition in the lead-up to the constitutional reform referendum in late 2007.

Baduel recently met with Pedro Carmona, the former head of Venezuela�s largest chamber of commerce who was named interim president during the April 2002 coup, Rangel said. They met in Colombia at what Rangel called a �sanctuary of the conspiracy against Venezuela,� Sergio Arboleda University, where Carmona now holds a post as a university professor.

Baduel gave an anti-Ch�vez speech and plugged his book, �My Plan for Venezuela,� and secretly met with members of the Colombian Association of Retired Military Officers, according to Rangel�s investigations.

Rangel also submitted a photo he said was of Carmona giving classes to military officers in Colombia�s military intelligence school. �The Colombian intelligence and counter-intelligence and [Colombian Defense Minister] Juan Manuel Santos are involved in this conspiracy,� said Rangel, emphasizing that Santos is Colombia�s main contact with the U.S. military.

Santos has met several times with retired Venezuelan military officers to coordinate the infiltration of Colombian paramilitaries, who are known to have close ties to the administration of Colombian President �lvaro Uribe, to be coup operatives in several Venezuelan cities, Rangel alleged. He reported that recently, the officer in charge of a Venezuelan military base gave 45 access permits to paramilitary troops.

Moreover, Rangel warned that before the regional and local elections this November, opposition student activists are preparing a �Red October,� during which they will launch violent protests across Venezuela, which they have done several times in the past, to provoke repression against them and trigger paramilitary activity against the government.

Rangel also said Colombia�s accusations that the Ch�vez administration has financed the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), a Colombian insurgent army which the governments of Colombia and its chief ally the United States consider a terrorist organization, is an effort to set the pretext for future military action against Venezuela.

Rangel said the accusations of financing were totally false, but acknowledged that the Ch�vez government has sustained a political relationship with the FARC, just like several previous Venezuelan presidents had, in their efforts to deal with the conflict. �The relationship exists, but now they want to present it as though it were a political perversion, like a deformation. It is a politicized argument.�

Rangel also denounced that Colombia is planning to make public a new computer that will falsely link Venezuelan government officials including National Assembly President Cilia Flores to drug trafficking.

The ongoing campaign by the U.S. government to link the Ch�vez administration to drug trafficking in South America is another aspect of the coup conspiracy, Rangel said. Also under the pretext of combating drug trafficking, the U.S. Congress has appropriated $5.5 billion in mostly military aid to Colombia since the year 2000.


The private media has been the essential ally of the campaign to link Venezuela with terrorism and drug trafficking. Among the Venezuelan media outlets, Rangel specified the newspapers El Nacional and El Universal and the television stations Globovisi�n and Radio Caracas Televisi�n (RCTV), as the major culprits.

These media outlets collaborated in the April 2002 coup by falsely reporting that Ch�vez had resigned, that Ch�vez supporters had shot at peaceful opposition protesters, and by broadcasting entertainment programs to black out news of crucial events leading up to Chavez�s return to power.

However, Rangel emphasized that it is the owners and chief editors of these news outlets who �practically substitute political parties� and are involved in the coup plans, not the reporters.

As further evidence of U.S. involvement, Rangel cited the re-activation of the Fourth Naval Fleet of the U.S. Southern Command, the strengthening of military bases in the Caribbean islands, and U.S. involvement in coup plotting against Latin American governments throughout the twentieth century.

According to Rangel, coup planning has accelerated recently because the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush seeks to oust Ch�vez before Bush�s term in office ends. �It is a great challenge that the man who has been able to build Latin American unity remains in [the Venezuelan presidential palace] Miraflores,� he remarked.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Bush would not shut down the media

Over 40 journalists were arrested while reporting at the Republican National Convention. It appears that Bush and his henchmen have gotten a good headstart that way.


Whut r tuh detuls
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In a presentation to the Venezuelan National Assembly (AN) on Wednesday, former Vice-President Jos� Vicente Rangel detailed the results of his ongoing investigations into plots to assassinate President Hugo Ch�vez and overthrow the government...


One gets the impression of listening to a political prisoner just freed from his reeducation regime in the Ministry of Love's Room 101 confessing his heart out...
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good article, bacasper. Some people find it hard to believe that powerful governments might actually engage in immoral activities and misrepresent democratic regimes in order to get their way. Just gotta feel sorry for them.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

1. The US was fighting Khomeni. Khomeni was a fascist bigot.

Irrelevant, just like the rest of your post. Game over, JRGR.


Last edited by bangbayed on Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chavez has supported FARC. FARC is not democratic.

Chavez being gone would be bad for FARC and good for democracy.

No the US ought not to overthrow Chavez, but the US is right to not warn him. Warning Chavez about of coup helps FARC.

And as a said Chavez is a supporter of anti US dictators world wide. Another reason not to warn Chavez about anything.
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Chavez has supported FARC. FARC is not democratic.

Chavez being gone would be bad for FARC and good for democracy.

No the US ought not to overthrow Chavez, but the US is right to not warn him. Warning Chavez about of coup helps FARC.

And as a said Chavez is a supporter of anti US dictators world wide. Another reason not to warn Chavez about anything.


More illegible ramblings? Keep treading that water. And drinking that Kook Aid. Laughing
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jandar wrote:
blade wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:


When Chavez supports the FARC drug terrorists is he using his oil wealth to benefit other South Americans?

Chavez supports FARC? Details please.


I guess you didn't get to see that laptop.



bangbayed

Chavez supports FARC. FARC is anti democratic . If Chavez were gone FARC would be the worse off for it.

Apologizing for that thug Chavez doesn't change the fact that he supports FARC.

The US has no business doing anything to help a supporter of FARC.
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blade



Joined: 30 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Jandar wrote:
blade wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:


When Chavez supports the FARC drug terrorists is he using his oil wealth to benefit other South Americans?

Chavez supports FARC? Details please.


I guess you didn't get to see that laptop.


Chavez supports FARC. FARC is anti democratic. Hurting Chavez hurts FARC .Hurting FARC is good for democracy.

I guess you didn't read or purposely ignored the article I posted above as well. I'm not surprised as you seem not to want accept anything that doesn't support your rather limited world view.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does Chavez support FARC? has he supported FARC?

Yes or no.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bangbayed wrote:
Good article, bacasper. Some people find it hard to believe that powerful governments might actually engage in immoral activities and misrepresent democratic regimes in order to get their way. Just gotta feel sorry for them.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

1. The US was fighting Khomeni. Khomeni was a fascist bigot.

Irrelevant, just like the rest of your post. Game over, JRGR.


No you talked about the US supporting Saddam.

At least the US had an excuse. What was Chavez's excuse for supporting Saddam?



Quote:
More illegible ramblings? Keep treading that water. And drinking that Kook Aid. Laughing


That Chavez has an army of thugs and goons to keep protestors in line is common knowledge. But I had no idea that he also keeps trolls.


Idea


Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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