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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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 Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| mnhnhyouh wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| wylies99 wrote: |
ABOLISH public schools? You think that's a good idea? You think that will happen any time soon? |
Of course not. We need public schools to test how much they've learned at hagwons. |
Most high school student stay at school until 9 or 10 at night. When do they go to hagwons? Hagwons are filled with elementary and middle school students. And ever check out some of their science and math books? No wonder why they need hagwons, the material is damn hard. |
At my school it is 1Grade 8:30 finish, 2 Grade 9:30 finish, 3 Grade 11pm finish.
Some 1 Grade students go to hagwons after school, as do some 2 Grade students. However, after about 5:30 most students are in class doing self-study until the end of their day. A fair few leave this for a time and go to hagwons. Others go to hagwons before their 8am start, I see them arriving in their hagwon bus.
h |
One of my Korean friends is a private math tutor. He teaches Korean High School students as late as 4 or 5 am almost every night.
Korean high school students who are forced to spend exta hours in school learning nothing have an even harder time than elementary and middle school kids. They have to study nearly all night with real teachers and small classes to actually learn something.
Public schools in Korea should be abolished just for the health of the students, if for no other reason. But, it would also make education cheaper, allow for the abolition of the income tax, and result in a better education system and a better educated populace.
As it stands now, the Koreans have an organized system to cheat on the International Tests to make it look like the education system is working. Without that, the total failure of the Korean schools to teach would be manifest. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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From the Korea Gazette
By Ryu Bi Sukur
http://www.koreagazette.co.kr/doksosilsalon/000323asp.htm
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Room Salon Combined with Study Room Hit with Local Families
Mr. Kim is going to be rich.
He's come up with the enterprising idea to combine two of Korea's largest revenue streams (hagwon and prostitution), tackle the problem of families not spending enough time together, as well as help students advance in their studies. Mr. Kim is soon to open his first in a chain of Dok Saw Sil Room Salons in downtown Kangnam.
Korean "Dok Saw Sil" are study rooms for students. Korean "Room Salons" are bars for Korean males where men go to conduct business and flirt with girls half their age.
"My idea simple. Whole family can come my business. Really -- they come. Children study. Father do business. Mother work and make needed money. Everyone happy!" says Mr. Kim.
In the Dok Saw Sil Room Salon, the children are placed on the first floor. Parents are on the upper floors. Husbands and wives are not allowed on the same floor. Children are not allowed on the upper floors, but can contact parents by phone. Children are forced to speak only in English when in the speaking rooms, or only study in the quiet rooms. If they are caught using Korean more than three times, the entire family is ejected.
"Father save money, because he enjoy cheap drinking with other married ladies or university student who trying pass test or get company job. He don't want lose that. So much pressure put on children to speak only English. So they speak only English." says Mr. Park.
Rooms on the 2nd floor cost only $100 per evening -- almost 1/10 the price of the typical Room Salon. Mr. Kim has already begun construction on the 4th and 5th floors, due to growing membership.
This might sound like a business which benefits mainly its male patrons, but the mothers are, no doubt, happy too. They enjoy socializing, and can take advantage of free hair and make-up services offered at the Dok Saw Sill Room Salon each day they attend. They are also welcome to join their students in study, or, if they need income, can bat their eyes at other males in the Room bar areas while they buy them drinks.
"Everybody come here together. Everybody go together. That way, everybody safe," says Mr. Kim.
Mr. Kim is not without his detractors, however. Many local religious groups are claiming that Mr. Kim's idea is a tragedy which is degrading to a moral society. They also claim that a lot more than business is going on behind locked doors on the upper floors.
"This whole idea is bad. Very bad," says Mr. Park, president of the Korea Religious Controls Organization. "We know they doing immoral things behind closed doors on 2nd floor. Is this right message for children?"
Mr. Kim, however, denies that anything illegal is going on, "Everyone sign agreement when join. They promise no hanky-panky here. Everyone know we family place."
When questioned as to why scores of couples can be seen sneaking out of back doors of clubs toward a motel room next door, Mr. Kim became slightly evasive, "Many families from afar come here. Parents need rest while children study. Maybe they go there for resting time. That motel owner my friend, but we not associated each other."
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="bassexpander"]From the Korea Gazette
By Ryu Bi Sukur
http://www.koreagazette.co.kr/doksosilsalon/000323asp.htm
| Quote: |
Room Salon Combined with Study Room Hit with Local Families
Mr. Kim is going to be rich.
He's come up with the enterprising idea to combine two of Korea's largest revenue streams (hagwon and prostitution), tackle the problem of families not spending enough time together, as well as help students advance in their studies. Mr. Kim is soon to open his first in a chain of Dok Saw Sil Room Salons in downtown Kangnam.
Korean "Dok Saw Sil" are study rooms for students. Korean "Room Salons" are bars for Korean males where men go to conduct business and flirt with girls half their age... |
A businessman combines a goshi-hagwon with a room salon.
It's incredible, but a bit off-topic. |
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beast
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The government should keep their hand out of privately run businesses, unless you want socialism. It's funny that they are targeting hogwans, yet prostitution is technically illegal, yet still flourishing in Korea. I wonder if the government will put a cap on how much a room salon can charge for having four ladies sing the Lambada with me. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Who in their right mind would advocate abolishing public schools? That would almost guarantee a division of society, where only the rich are educated.
Also, something doesn't jive here. If I were to base everything on what I read on Dave's, most of the Koreans under 30 would be psychologically unstable because they supposedly "missed" out on their childhood. But from my experience, it's mostly western english teachers that or on the unstable side. The Koreans I've met are pretty cool.
Anyways, I wonder what the actual % of students that actually attend academic hagwons for subjects like english, math and science is. And the % that attend non-academic hagwons for subjects like music, art, and whatever else you can think of. These hagwons are more for image, kids socializing and the owners hoping to make money, than for learning.
Just my 20 wons worth of thought. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Another thing, I think if the government actually did manage do get rid of hagwons (in a non authoritarian way). And high schools decided it wasn't worth it to keep students in school after 5. Youth crime would just shoot through the roof. A catch 22... either way it sucks for either the kids or society. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| beast wrote: |
| The government should keep their hand out of privately run businesses, unless you want socialism. It's funny that they are targeting hogwans, yet prostitution is technically illegal, yet still flourishing in Korea. I wonder if the government will put a cap on how much a room salon can charge for having four ladies sing the Lambada with me. |
There are plenty of reasonable laws that regulate businesses and business practices. That's not socialism. |
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Gollywog
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Debussy's brain
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| An English hagwon in southern Seoul was found to charge six million won for a month of classes, almost 13 times higher than the 450,000 won it reported to authorities. |
Ah, Korean reporting most inscrutable.
No name hagwon, passive tense failing to indicate who found this, and no clear indication of what the hagwon actually was charging.
I hope we are not being told here that the hagwon charged $6,000 a month per student. If it is for a class, how many students were in the class? Or was it for all the classes offered, and the hagwon only reported income of $450 a month? (Yeah, right.) If the latter, the hagwon is either guilty of assuming the Korean tax collector is a total fool, or __________ (fill in the blank yourself).
"was found to charge six million won for a month of classes...."
Can anyone decipher the meaning of this?
If a parent is paying $6,000 a month for little Kimmy to take English classes, let me offer a friendly suggestion. Cancel the hagwon classes and let little Kimmy get to bed at a reasonable hour. Then maybe he won't fall asleep in English class at the public school taught by a professional, certified teacher along with a native speaker of reasonable competence.
Shoot, there are very few students I've seen who show any benefit from attending a hagwon to study English. And those who do show competence in English would probably benefit more from private tutoring to supplement public school English classes. Can't anyone in this country think straight?
Koreans are clueless. |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| beast wrote: |
| The government should keep their hand out of privately run businesses, unless you want socialism... |
There are monopolistic industries like utilities that need intensive regulation.
But when a highly competitive industry like private schools is subject to price regulation, that smacks of Socialism and I'm surprised we'd hear about this kind of crap coming from an administration that's supposed to be conservative and pro-business. |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| hari seldon wrote: |
| beast wrote: |
| The government should keep their hand out of privately run businesses, unless you want socialism... |
There are monopolistic industries like utilities that need intensive regulation.
But when a highly competitive industry like private schools is subject to price regulation, that smacks of Socialism and I'm surprised we'd hear about this kind of crap coming from an administration that's supposed to be conservative and pro-business. |
I am against price regulation, but I'm all for proper taxation. If hogwans didn't avoid their corporate responsibilities, you wouldn't see this scare tactic by the government being used. |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
| beast wrote: |
| The government should keep their hand out of privately run businesses, unless you want socialism... |
There are monopolistic industries like utilities that need intensive regulation.
But when a highly competitive industry like private schools is subject to price regulation, that smacks of Socialism and I'm surprised we'd hear about this kind of crap coming from an administration that's supposed to be conservative and pro-business. |
I am against price regulation, but I'm all for proper taxation. If hogwans didn't avoid their corporate responsibilities, you wouldn't see this scare tactic by the government being used. |
The tax issue is a red herring. Most of the small business owners in Korea under-report income and the government barely acknowledges it's a problem. |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| hari seldon wrote: |
| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
| beast wrote: |
| The government should keep their hand out of privately run businesses, unless you want socialism... |
There are monopolistic industries like utilities that need intensive regulation.
But when a highly competitive industry like private schools is subject to price regulation, that smacks of Socialism and I'm surprised we'd hear about this kind of crap coming from an administration that's supposed to be conservative and pro-business. |
I am against price regulation, but I'm all for proper taxation. If hogwans didn't avoid their corporate responsibilities, you wouldn't see this scare tactic by the government being used. |
The tax issue is a red herring. Most of the small business owners in Korea under-report income and the government barely acknowledges it's a problem. |
LMB, according to my wife, is trying to crack down on tax evasion. That is why when you buy anything you get tax credit if you use a Korean credit card or if you pay cash and use your tax card. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| hari seldon wrote: |
| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
| beast wrote: |
| The government should keep their hand out of privately run businesses, unless you want socialism... |
There are monopolistic industries like utilities that need intensive regulation.
But when a highly competitive industry like private schools is subject to price regulation, that smacks of Socialism and I'm surprised we'd hear about this kind of crap coming from an administration that's supposed to be conservative and pro-business. |
I am against price regulation, but I'm all for proper taxation. If hogwans didn't avoid their corporate responsibilities, you wouldn't see this scare tactic by the government being used. |
The tax issue is a red herring. Most of the small business owners in Korea under-report income and the government barely acknowledges it's a problem. |
Then why is LMB pushing this issue? |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| hari seldon wrote: |
| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
| beast wrote: |
| The government should keep their hand out of privately run businesses, unless you want socialism... |
There are monopolistic industries like utilities that need intensive regulation.
But when a highly competitive industry like private schools is subject to price regulation, that smacks of Socialism and I'm surprised we'd hear about this kind of crap coming from an administration that's supposed to be conservative and pro-business. |
I am against price regulation, but I'm all for proper taxation. If hogwans didn't avoid their corporate responsibilities, you wouldn't see this scare tactic by the government being used. |
The tax issue is a red herring. Most of the small business owners in Korea under-report income and the government barely acknowledges it's a problem. |
Read the article again. It is all about money. They mention money everywhere. The current gov't wants its share. They don't give a crap about what the MOE wants. They want the tax revenues. You combine these mom and pop hogwans together, that is a big chunk of change. So many hogwans are under-reporting profits, salaries, correct health insurance and not paying into pension, they know this. Any person with a clue knows this. Now these hogwan owners know the loop holes, so now LMB is using the tuition cap as a "red herring" to get them online. |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| hari seldon wrote: |
| beast wrote: |
| The government should keep their hand out of privately run businesses, unless you want socialism... |
There are monopolistic industries like utilities that need intensive regulation.
But when a highly competitive industry like private schools is subject to price regulation, that smacks of Socialism and I'm surprised we'd hear about this kind of crap coming from an administration that's supposed to be conservative and pro-business. |
I am against price regulation, but I'm all for proper taxation. If hogwans didn't avoid their corporate responsibilities, you wouldn't see this scare tactic by the government being used. |
The tax issue is a red herring. Most of the small business owners in Korea under-report income and the government barely acknowledges it's a problem. |
Read the article again. It is all about money. They mention money everywhere. The current gov't wants its share. They don't give a crap about what the MOE wants. They want the tax revenues. You combine these mom and pop hogwans together, that is a big chunk of change. So many hogwans are under-reporting profits, salaries, correct health insurance and not paying into pension, they know this. Any person with a clue knows this. Now these hogwan owners know the loop holes, so now LMB is using the tuition cap as a "red herring" to get them online. |
Obviously the article's author tries to make the argument that government intervention in the form of tuition price controls is justified by hagwons' tendency (like most small businesses in Korea) to under-report taxable income, but tuition price controls won't have the effect of increasing tax collections.
Schools that are forced out of business don't pay taxes.
The tax issue, therefore, is a red herring. |
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