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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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SEC. 118. FUNDING.
21 For the purpose of the authorities granted in this
22 Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities,
23 the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any secu24
rities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States
25 Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued
1 under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are ex2
tended to include actions authorized by this Act, including
3 the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds ex4
pended or obligated by the Secretary for actions author5
ized by this Act, including the payment of administrative
6 expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such
7 expenditure or obligation. |
Chapter 31 of Title 31 governs the forms and procedure for public debt, including the selling of bonds and adjusting of interest rates on current retirement bonds.
They're tacking the $700billion onto our national debt. Nice. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| So, what will the 700bn be after interest paid when it is finally paid off? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Priorities, Kuros: first you stop the bleeding, then you address the cause. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Priorities, Kuros: first you stop the bleeding, then you address the cause. |
Gopher, you and I both know that Congress was completely capable of raising taxes on this issue. I would not be snarking if they had. But they took the coward's out on this one. You know its true. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree. It is simply unreasonable and utterly unrealistic for you to expect Congress to raise taxes, especially at that level, at this point, as the election is looming before us, in 2008. A Democratic Congress raising taxes like that? Seven-hundred billion dollars in new taxes? What would have happened to B. Obama's candidacy? I do not fault the Democrats for not wanting to jeapordize their very real chance of winning the presidency this election.
Before you retort with an attack, I agree with you that we need leadership who will raise taxes, reduce the govt's budget overall, and make a sustained longterm effort to redeem the national debt, or at least reduce it to a manageable size. I am talking sustained, firm, straight-talking leadership over a period of twenty-five to thirty-five years, bare minimum. RFK promised to be such a leader in 1968. He proposed significant healthcare reform at an Indiana med-school that year. Med students asked him in the usual gotcha way: "Who will pay for this?" RFK simply responded, without even flinching: "You will."
But I do not believe that that will occur anytime soon. People do not like to think longterm. They usually become dismissive and hostile about it. They prefer the comfort of simplistic partisan politics ("the other side caused this," "elect us and we will 'change' all of it," "whenever we experience problems, it is not our fault, but the other side, who held power before us, and therefore did this," etc., etc., until the end of time).
What can I say? The older I become the more I lose faith in people, generally. If you and I and others like us were running the govt, things would be totally different, different in the American economy, different in world affairs, different across the board. But people like us usually (a) do not want to have anything to do with govt; or (b) remain unelectable because of our frankness on issues such as sacrificing now for longterm security. C'est la vie, Kuros.
I still support this bill as an immediate-action measure. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
I disagree. It is simply unreasonable and utterly unrealistic for you to expect Congress to raise taxes, especially at that level, at this point, as the election is looming before us, in 2008. A Democratic Congress raising taxes like that? Seven-hundred billion dollars in new taxes? What would have happened to B. Obama's candidacy? I do not fault the Democrats for not wanting to jeapordize their very real chance of winning the presidency this election.
Before you retort with an attack, I agree with you that we need leadership who will raise taxes, reduce the govt's budget overall, and make a sustained longterm effort to redeem the national debt, or at least reduce it to a manageable size. I am talking sustained, firm, straight-talking leadership over a period of twenty-five to thirty-five years, bare minimum. RFK promised to be such a leader in 1968. He proposed significant healthcare reform at an Indiana med-school that year. Med students asked him in the usual gotcha way: "Who will pay for this?" RFK simply responded, without even flinching: "You will."
But I do not believe that that will occur anytime soon. People do not like to think longterm. They usually become dismissive and hostile about it. They prefer the comfort of simplistic partisan politics ("the other side caused this," "elect us and we will 'change' all of it," "whenever we experience problems, it is not our fault, but the other side, who held power before us, and therefore did this," etc., etc., until the end of time).
What can I say? The older I become the more I lose faith in people, generally. If you and I and others like us were running the govt, things would be totally different, different in the American economy, different in world affairs, different across the board. But people like us usually (a) do not want to have anything to do with govt; or (b) remain unelectable because of our frankness on issues such as sacrificing now for longterm security. C'est la vie, Kuros.
I still support this bill. |
Hate to say it Gopher, but you're sounding a lot like me here. Well the lat paragraph at least. Only difference is I view the US in worse shape than you do at this point in time.
And I agree, given current political circumstances (an election in a month), there is no way Congress would ever think of raising taxes or do anything radical. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Couldn't they give it more of a snappy name that makes American feel more secure?
Something to help them remember freedom or their patriotism?
What seems shocking to me is that, at no point have I heard any talk of the government making an effort to SAVE money; cut a program; or make any effort to free up funds.
I understand it would be a finger in a hole in a dam but geez, someone keeping their eyes focused on SOME MEASURE of fiscal responsibility would be grand |
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Bigfeet
Joined: 29 May 2008
Location: Grrrrr.....
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| So, what will the 700bn be after interest paid when it is finally paid off? |
I doubt if it will be paid of in our lifetime. America already owes 9 trillion dollars even before this mess. So we get to be stupid and our kids get to pay for it. |
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