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hamlet712
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Thom
I agree with many of the things you have said. Its not the way I work though. I do not need to revert to an employment contract for every request. I look in a contract for general hours, pay apartment, vacations etc. If I am asked to do something and it is not that much of an issue i would feel like I am being a douch pulling it out and say "oh so sorry, Its not in my contract" to a perfectly reasonable boss.
Clearly many people do not get a reasonable boss.
Oh and about the toilet thing. It has nothing to do with it being beneath my boss, but of course stuff like that rolls downhill I know.
But when my boss is responsible for dealing with customers and working out front, and he is wearing a suit, that is a far cry from me wearing a company supplied, company laundered, already quite dirty cooks uniform. Especially when I can throw it in the laundry and put in another one after doing my "shitty" job.
I am not being santimonious, I am simply saying that I think I have a higher work ethic than many people, and it is not all of a sudden in question simply because I left Canada. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Quit shifting the goal posts.
NOW you say "Oh, I didn't mean the UNREASONABLE requests, I meant that teachers shouldn't be upset about being asked to do things that are part of their job descriptions"[sic].
No one disagrees with that. But really, how many people have come on here and complained that they had to do stuff they were required to do? And when they did, wouldn't you say that most of them got slapped down pretty good? |
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hamlet712
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
Quit shifting the goal posts.
NOW you say "Oh, I didn't mean the UNREASONABLE requests, I meant that teachers shouldn't be upset about being asked to do things that are part of their job descriptions"[sic].
No one disagrees with that. But really, how many people have come on here and complained that they had to do stuff they were required to do? And when they did, wouldn't you say that most of them got slapped down pretty good? |
I am not shifting the goal posts. But so many people are basically saying they wont do anything that is not in the contract.
I am talking about, and have always been talking about duties that are not specifically put into a contract, but are completely associated with the smooth and operational running of the school. I have always made it quite clear that unreasonable requests have nothing to do with the job, or have to do with the job but are unfair to ask the teacher to do.
There are many things that are considered part of a teacher job "description" that may not be in the contract.
My contract said nothing about keeping my class neat and tidy on a regular basis, but I keep it super organised at all times as that is how I smoothly run my class. To me this seems like an OVBIOUS teacher duty even if it is not spelled out in a contract.
Oh and to answer your qustion, MANY people come on here and complain about things that they are required to do, AND were always spelled out to them in their contract. One of the prime examples is simple teaching workload. |
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hamlet712
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| hamlet712 wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| The big difference here is that Korean bosses are more likely to make strange, awkward, outrageous requests. |
And again, I am not talking about those requests.
If I was back home in Canada I am not going to follow a requst to wait outside the bank with the engine running while my boss runs in with a ski mask on
If I am an office worker hired to answer phones and my boss tells me he needs me to file some papers, I am not going to say to him that my job is to answer the phones.I am going to say, "sure,more than happy to do that for you" |
And if your boss tells you to come in to work on Saturday? Or denies your vacation request? Or forces you to work even though you're sick? Because those things happen more often here than wherever you're from, they're more of an issue here.
If you are caving in to every one of your boss's demands, you're going to be doing a lot of work for free. |
Not talking about coming into work on Saturday, thats my day off, and not something I HAVE to do, however, I have no problem doing that occasionally if it is needed. it would depend on the situation. My school doesnot run on Saturday, and not even the Korean bosses are there, so this is unlikey to happen, and if they did ask, it would be for genuine help.
What do you mean by "denies your vacation request"? most vacations are clearly defined in the contract are they not. If i am making a request outside of the normal time, it is at the bosses discretion. I made one vacation request in year one, and it was granted, likely because my bosses followed the "respect is a two way street" philosophy.
Can a boss actually "force" you to work while you are sick? The word sick is thrown around far too liberally anyway. You can be "sick" and still be able to work, even if youd rather not. If you get the note which most places REQUIRE you get for a sick day ( in the contract) If you do not come in, and have that note can a boss actually do anything? I suppose they could, but if they are then this is one of those unreasonable bosses I would not want to do much of anything for, so again, not the kind of guy I am talking about.
I am not "caving in" to my bosses demands. I am not finding an issue with requests that fall well within the realm of running/operating/working in a school. |
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Pink Freud
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| hamlet712 wrote: |
I am not being santimonious, I am simply saying that I think I have a higher work ethic than many people... |
No, you simply have less professional work experience than many people.
And yes, you are being sanCtimonious. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| hamlet712 wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| hamlet712 wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| The big difference here is that Korean bosses are more likely to make strange, awkward, outrageous requests. |
And again, I am not talking about those requests.
If I was back home in Canada I am not going to follow a requst to wait outside the bank with the engine running while my boss runs in with a ski mask on
If I am an office worker hired to answer phones and my boss tells me he needs me to file some papers, I am not going to say to him that my job is to answer the phones.I am going to say, "sure,more than happy to do that for you" |
And if your boss tells you to come in to work on Saturday? Or denies your vacation request? Or forces you to work even though you're sick? Because those things happen more often here than wherever you're from, they're more of an issue here.
If you are caving in to every one of your boss's demands, you're going to be doing a lot of work for free. |
Not talking about coming into work on Saturday, thats my day off, and not something I HAVE to do, however, I have no problem doing that occasionally if it is needed. it would depend on the situation. My school doesnot run on Saturday, and not even the Korean bosses are there, so this is unlikey to happen, and if they did ask, it would be for genuine help.
What do you mean by "denies your vacation request"? most vacations are clearly defined in the contract are they not. If i am making a request outside of the normal time, it is at the bosses discretion. I made one vacation request in year one, and it was granted, likely because my bosses followed the "respect is a two way street" philosophy.
Can a boss actually "force" you to work while you are sick? The word sick is thrown around far too liberally anyway. You can be "sick" and still be able to work, even if youd rather not. If you get the note which most places REQUIRE you get for a sick day ( in the contract) If you do not come in, and have that note can a boss actually do anything? I suppose they could, but if they are then this is one of those unreasonable bosses I would not want to do much of anything for, so again, not the kind of guy I am talking about.
I am not "caving in" to my bosses demands. I am not finding an issue with requests that fall well within the realm of running/operating/working in a school. |
What is it that YOU do that makes you such a great employee? Also, what points are you trying to make about being sick? If you're sick, take a day off from work. That BENEFITS the school because you won't make other people sick.  |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
| hamlet712 wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| hamlet712 wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| The big difference here is that Korean bosses are more likely to make strange, awkward, outrageous requests. |
And again, I am not talking about those requests.
If I was back home in Canada I am not going to follow a requst to wait outside the bank with the engine running while my boss runs in with a ski mask on
If I am an office worker hired to answer phones and my boss tells me he needs me to file some papers, I am not going to say to him that my job is to answer the phones.I am going to say, "sure,more than happy to do that for you" |
And if your boss tells you to come in to work on Saturday? Or denies your vacation request? Or forces you to work even though you're sick? Because those things happen more often here than wherever you're from, they're more of an issue here.
If you are caving in to every one of your boss's demands, you're going to be doing a lot of work for free. |
Not talking about coming into work on Saturday, thats my day off, and not something I HAVE to do, however, I have no problem doing that occasionally if it is needed. it would depend on the situation. My school doesnot run on Saturday, and not even the Korean bosses are there, so this is unlikey to happen, and if they did ask, it would be for genuine help.
What do you mean by "denies your vacation request"? most vacations are clearly defined in the contract are they not. If i am making a request outside of the normal time, it is at the bosses discretion. I made one vacation request in year one, and it was granted, likely because my bosses followed the "respect is a two way street" philosophy.
Can a boss actually "force" you to work while you are sick? The word sick is thrown around far too liberally anyway. You can be "sick" and still be able to work, even if youd rather not. If you get the note which most places REQUIRE you get for a sick day ( in the contract) If you do not come in, and have that note can a boss actually do anything? I suppose they could, but if they are then this is one of those unreasonable bosses I would not want to do much of anything for, so again, not the kind of guy I am talking about.
I am not "caving in" to my bosses demands. I am not finding an issue with requests that fall well within the realm of running/operating/working in a school. |
What is it that YOU do that makes you such a great employee? Also, what points are you trying to make about being sick? If you're sick, take a day off from work. That BENEFITS the school because you won't make other people sick. |
He keeps his classroom very clean. |
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hamlet712
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:31 am Post subject: |
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I never said anything makes me a great employee,
However Wylie, since you are still so convinced I am a Korean, and won't acknowledge a damn word I have said on my previous thread, I am not giving you the time of day on this one.
All I will say is, that I do in fact think I am a great employee, (that's the first time I have actually said that I think I am one) and the reasons should be quite obvious given what I have already said on this thread, and the other one where the only thing you seem to be capable of saying is that I am a Korean and a SOCK. |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| hamlet712 wrote: |
I never said anything makes me a great employee,
However Wylie, since you are still so convinced I am a Korean, and won't acknowledge a damn word I have said on my previous thread, I am not giving you the time of day on this one.
All I will say is, that I do in fact think I am a great employee, (that's the first time I have actually said that I think I am one) and the reasons should be quite obvious given what I have already said on this thread, and the other one where the only thing you seem to be capable of saying is that I am a Korean and a SOCK. |
You win the Steve Schertzer award! Congratue! |
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Typhoon
Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Luckily I am out of the hagwon world, but when I was in it I followed the respect is a two-way street philosophy. I used to work Saturdays, create curriculi, meet parents, and do a lot of extra things back in the day. I was the do-gooder teacher. However, it always became clear the more I did extra things to help my school the more they expected and the worse I got treated. So I just ended up teaching. I would make sure my students were taken care of, that they got a solid life and English education, that my classroom wsa neat and orderly, and that lessons were fun and interesting. Basically I made sure that I was being a teacher. When the school came to me with a request like attending a sports day on Saturday I would say yes because it would benefit my students. But anything that didn't directly benefit my students and would give me a headache would be turned down. If a boss wants employees to do extra work then they need to learn that respect works both ways. |
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hamlet712
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| hamlet712 wrote: |
I never said anything makes me a great employee,
However Wylie, since you are still so convinced I am a Korean, and won't acknowledge a damn word I have said on my previous thread, I am not giving you the time of day on this one.
All I will say is, that I do in fact think I am a great employee, (that's the first time I have actually said that I think I am one) and the reasons should be quite obvious given what I have already said on this thread, and the other one where the only thing you seem to be capable of saying is that I am a Korean and a SOCK. |
You win the Steve Schertzer award! Congratue! |
Am I supposed to know what that is?
I am assuming that you are making fun of me, not surprised if you are. |
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ben-ja-mas
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| hamlet712 wrote: |
| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| hamlet712 wrote: |
I never said anything makes me a great employee,
However Wylie, since you are still so convinced I am a Korean, and won't acknowledge a damn word I have said on my previous thread, I am not giving you the time of day on this one.
All I will say is, that I do in fact think I am a great employee, (that's the first time I have actually said that I think I am one) and the reasons should be quite obvious given what I have already said on this thread, and the other one where the only thing you seem to be capable of saying is that I am a Korean and a SOCK. |
You win the Steve Schertzer award! Congratue! |
Am I supposed to know what that is?
I am assuming that you are making fun of me, not surprised if you are. |
Dude I thought you were married to a Korean. Why not get off this forum and go give your wife some luv. When the coolest guy on here ttompats calls you out(twice in a week as far as I have seen) you know you are being an ass. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Buddy, please. Calm down. You married a Korean. That's punishment enough. You don't need to come here looking for more. |
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ruffie
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Buddy, please. Calm down. You married a Korean. That's punishment enough. You don't need to come here looking for more. |
Does anyone else get the feeling that these two have completely politicised their relationship? We have to stop indulging them. |
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nebraska1
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: Judge, Some people just need killin!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Come on, let's be reasonable. If my principal asked me to pick up his dry cleaning cause he has to run to a meeting, I'd do it. Because 1) I can and 2) it's for the greater good. |
WTF 
I don't pick up laundry. I am one of the hardest working teachers. I prepare well for class. When I had my own class room I did some of my own maintenance. Like cleaning air filters in my air con and heater. But it was MY classroom.
I love my job, I love teaching. But I am not a doormat. I don't pick up laundry. I assume he has a support system like a family to pick up his freaking laundry.
I don't work 3 hours for free. I have wrote plays. Supervised practice, used a bit of my own money to make cute and fun costumes. My C.A. activity class was mostly at my own expense. Why did I do that kind of stuff? Because when it came to vacation time I was given a wink and a nod and given just about the same time as Korean Teachers.
However, after 6 years there was a regime change at my school and the new principal decided he must show that he was my "boss". And started making stupid demands and micro-managing my classes. I quit.
I will not work for free, I don't do menial labor. I have done my time in the trenches and I didn't spend my hard earned money to get a degree and a TESOL so I could drive kids around and pick up some guys laundry. Korean teachers don't do it and neither do I. I am a professional not a professional doormat.
This is a different culture cupcake. I have been here 7 plus years now and married to a Korean. If you are doing stuff like this you are perhaps not a doormat but I think you must be compensating because you feel perhaps your talents as a teacher are not what they should be or perhaps you like being treated like an entry level intern.
Me? I am a bit more pragmatic. Yes, I frequently do "extra" stuff but when I ask for that day off, if it is reasonable I better get it. If I am sick I better not catch any guff about taking a sick day. Or as I said above I quit. I am a teacher and a damn good one. Not a driver, not a laundress or errand girl.
Good luck in future endeavors. The teacher after you will be so happy that he/she will be expected to be a go-fer because you were a fool and an insufferable apple polisher. Man or woman up and act like a professional.
N1 |
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