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Sorry about my Last thread - This one is Less Controversial
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Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject:

hamlet712 wrote:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Tonight I'm taking two scripts home with me to revise and edit because I want some absolutely wonderful, brilliant students to do their best at a speech and drama contest. One of the scripts was my idea to change and the other one was my CT's request (she's ten years older than me). I'm happy to, because the students are awesome, my CT's very supportive and hardworking herself, and my school's been great to me.

At my last job I would have done it if it was for one of the five KETs because she respected and appreciated me. I wouldn't have bothered for the others. If the boss had asked me to do something like that I would have said sure and then 'lost' them, or perhaps sabatoged the scripts.

And you know why? Because respect is a two-way street. I do what the boss / prinicipal / VP / teacher senior to me asks when he / she deserves it. If your contract says you're a 'teacher' but you get treated as anything but one, I have no trouble acting like anything but a teacher.

Yu Bum Suk,

I TOTALLY agree with that. If your boss treats you like crap and like a hired hand, then I am going to do exactly that. I have a good rapport with my boss, others do not. When he asks me to do something I am more than happy to do it because he has been good to me. Many people are ticked at me because I will do pretty much any thing he asks as long as it is a reasonable request, and he is not asking me to stay later than my time.

Well then acknowledge that some people have very different work situations from us and should act accordingly and perhaps you won't come off as looking like such a retard.

wanamin

Joined: 14 Apr 2008

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject:

this guy is a troll... why do you give him the attention he desires?

ttompatz

Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject:

wanamin wrote:

this guy is a troll... why do you give him the attention he desires?

Cause when things get boring and there is nothing newsworthy other than the US economic meltdown it is an interesting diversion to feed the trolls.

.

hamlet712

Joined: 16 Mar 2007

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

hamlet712 wrote:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Well then acknowledge that some people have very different work situations from us and should act accordingly and perhaps you won't come off as looking like such a retard.

Hmm how about you learn to read, and you'd see that I have acknowledged that some people have different work situations. I have made it quite clear that I am talking about a decent run of the mill employer, and why the workers role changes for westerners working for a Korean boss. I ahet guys like you where a guy has apologised for the tone of his initial rant, makes his new argument quite clear and respectful, posts NUMEROUS times addressing nearly any question that has been thrown at him, and you still misinterpret what I have said and call me a retard.

Then this other joker comes on and calls me a troll. How is a guy who wants to address a serious point in a non serious rant, and then wants clarification on a point people knocked him for in that rant, considered a troll.

Between Yu Bum Suck and Wanamin, I honestly wonder if intelligent discussion is possible with some people.

Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject:

hamlet712 wrote:

I am talking about a decent run of the mill employer

No one who knows what he's talking about would ever use that phrase with regard to the Korean hagwon industry.

EzeWong

Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject:

nebraska1 wrote:

Quote:

Come on, let's be reasonable. If my principal asked me to pick up his dry cleaning cause he has to run to a meeting, I'd do it. Because 1) I can and 2) it's for the greater good.

WTF

I don't pick up laundry. I am one of the hardest working teachers. I prepare well for class. When I had my own class room I did some of my own maintenance. Like cleaning air filters in my air con and heater. But it was MY classroom.

I love my job, I love teaching. But I am not a doormat. I don't pick up laundry. I assume he has a support system like a family to pick up his freaking laundry.

I don't work 3 hours for free. I have wrote plays. Supervised practice, used a bit of my own money to make cute and fun costumes. My C.A. activity class was mostly at my own expense. Why did I do that kind of stuff? Because when it came to vacation time I was given a wink and a nod and given just about the same time as Korean Teachers.

However, after 6 years there was a regime change at my school and the new principal decided he must show that he was my "boss". And started making stupid demands and micro-managing my classes. I quit.

I will not work for free, I don't do menial labor. I have done my time in the trenches and I didn't spend my hard earned money to get a degree and a TESOL so I could drive kids around and pick up some guys laundry. Korean teachers don't do it and neither do I. I am a professional not a professional doormat.

This is a different culture cupcake. I have been here 7 plus years now and married to a Korean. If you are doing stuff like this you are perhaps not a doormat but I think you must be compensating because you feel perhaps your talents as a teacher are not what they should be or perhaps you like being treated like an entry level intern.

Me? I am a bit more pragmatic. Yes, I frequently do "extra" stuff but when I ask for that day off, if it is reasonable I better get it. If I am sick I better not catch any guff about taking a sick day. Or as I said above I quit. I am a teacher and a damn good one. Not a driver, not a laundress or errand girl.

Good luck in future endeavors. The teacher after you will be so happy that he/she will be expected to be a go-fer because you were a fool and an insufferable apple polisher. Man or woman up and act like a professional.

N1

I was speaking in hypotheticals. My boss has never asked me to do this. BUT if he had approached me, as a human being, friend, and boss to pick up his dry cleaning to help him out because he's in a rush. I would say yes it's the right thing to do (and to win favor, I mean where do you think raises come from). If it comes at the expense of valuable free time, I would say no of course... I mean, like I said be reasonable, which you obviously don't take us for.

Some people think doing favors for others make you a doormat. No. I've been at the top, and I've been at the bottom. I've been both manager and lackey. Maybe you quit because your value as a teaher is very high. That's fine, you have credentials and you're an incredible professional, I admire that.

But the day I say I can't bend to pick up that piece of paper because that's the janitors job makes me a snob. I absolutely resent the fact that people will classify themselves too good to help another person. Honestly, you'd be no better than your boss if you said "hey that's not my job, I'm too good for this". Your boss is thinking the same exact thing "Hey I'm too good to be picking up dry cleaning, you go do it".

Different people have different limits as to what they will and won't do. I'll die protecting my friends and family and maybe country.

I will help my janitor, I will help my boss, I will help my co-worker. I spend my time with my mentally challenged students. Does that make me a tool? I don't get paid for it. Nobody asked me to do it. Am I a doormat? Yeah sure "cupcake" call me what you will. But when it comes down to the wire, and I'm in serious need of something, I don't have to look far for help. Even one mentally challenged students helps me look spic and span in the morning by helping me fix my tie. Teachers drop by with food and invite me over all the time because I'm willing to sacrifice for the greater good. Like you said: "This is a different culture cupcake". Well if anything you know it's a confucian culture. A "collective" culture where society comes before yourself.

Maybe I don't have my TESOL "cupcake". I have a finance degree from a top tier 2 college, but that doesn't make me too good to help out my boss. I believe there's more to life than just my money and my free time. To each their own though, if that's makes you happy... roll with it.

billybrobby

Joined: 09 Dec 2004

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:17 am Post subject:

I also have a hard time believing the OP is sincere. It's just too dumb. Obviously, there are doormats and there are stubborn pricks. And there's a happy medium. There's nothing hard to understand about that. This guy is feigning shock at people's work ethics.

koreandefence

Joined: 05 Oct 2007

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Sorry about my Last thread - This one is Less Controvers

ytuque wrote:

hamlet712 wrote:

Okay, apparently way too many people were finding it hilarious that I made the comment(s)

1) it is our job to do as our bosses say
2) it is not up to us to question thier decision, it is our job to do what they ask.

Now, you can call me naive, clueless, a bleeping moron (as many of you will, or already have)

But I am asking in all seriousness (and again let me reiterate that I am talking about perfectly acceptable requests that fall into the regular duties of a teacher, NOT the wrong/illegal/unpaid extra work requests)

Why do people think that in Korea it is not our responsibility to do as our bosses ask, when if we didn't listen to our bosses back home we would be fired for insubordination?

Yes, many of you may still be choked or what have you at my last thread. It was a build up of anger I'd been harboring for a while at blatant hostility towards the country and my wife's people. I apologise for being as brash as I was.

But this is a serious question, I am a Canadian, not Korean, I am asking a serious question, and I am trying not to be as negative as I was in my last thread. I have left the flame war I started on the original thread and asking this hoping to get serious discussion on it, because frankly it baffles me that so many westerners are thinking I am crazy for having this as an ingrained work ethic more.

Serious discussion on this matter would be awesome.

Your work duties are spelled out in your contract. You are not required to blindly follow your boss's instructions here or back in North America.

Do you wear knee pads when you talk to your boss?

Sorry mate, I am sure you have never worked a real job in your life, standing on the corner does not count.
You want to attack the guy when he asks a question, you were almost done then had a dig, well done. 10points for being a fool.
Now, those of us who have worked real jobs understand that a contract and work ethic are two different things. You on the other hand are a little slow. If your boss asks you to do something, then you should do it. People like you will always land in the gutter, so have fun there. kiss
kiss

hamlet712

Joined: 16 Mar 2007

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:41 am Post subject:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

hamlet712 wrote:

I am talking about a decent run of the mill employer

No one who knows what he's talking about would ever use that phrase with regard to the Korean hagwon industry.

No one who knows what I am talking about would say that I am talking about EVERY hagwon. There are many decent and fair bosses out there, I have worked for three in a row now.

hamlet712

Joined: 16 Mar 2007

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:45 am Post subject:

billybrobby wrote:

I also have a hard time believing the OP is sincere. It's just too dumb.

Obviously, there are doormats and there are stubborn pricks. And there's a happy medium. There's nothing hard to understand about that. This guy is feigning shock at people's work ethics.

Then that's your own bloody problem. I am simply surprised that many people thinking that thier boss asking them to do simple tasks is beneath them. It is hardly feigning shock. I wanted to know why there are two sets of expectations for these people. They will listen to and do what a western employer ( back home) asks, but hey think that doing what a Korean boss asks is beneath them.

ytuque

Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:16 am Post subject: Re: Sorry about my Last thread - This one is Less Controvers

koreandefence wrote:

ytuque wrote:

hamlet712 wrote:

Your work duties are spelled out in your contract. You are not required to blindly follow your boss's instructions here or back in North America.

Do you wear knee pads when you talk to your boss?

Figured out my entire work history from a few sentences? Your psychic abilities are truly amazing! Now get back to work shining ajosshi's shoes.

rebel_1812

Joined: 17 May 2008
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:39 am Post subject:

hamlet712 wrote:

billybrobby wrote:

that is a load of b*llsh*t. I would never pick up my the laundry of my boss in korean or canada. It would be inappropriate in both cases. That is where you lose scope. You think people have a double standard and change what they will and won't do over here versus at home. But that is not the case. People who stick to the contract at home are trying to stick to the contract here. It is the korean bosses that that have the double standard with their korean and foreign employees. Anyone here think korean teachers are treated the same as us raise your hand.

EzeWong

Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:18 am Post subject:

rebel_1812 wrote:

I dont know about you, but I'm treated like a god compared to the korean teachers.

On a seperate note, Let me ask some of you guys, if your boss asked to grab him a cup of coffee, would you flat out say no? Coffee is a little more in the grey area. Now if you say you wouldn't get coffee for your boss... You're full of BS, because I refuse to believe you could ever hold a steady job being full of BS.

I'm quite suprised so many people won't budge for your boss. I want to see this in action, I think your pulling out your Dave Forum E-Pen15 and tricking yourself into believing you have "balls". But it ain't ballzy. I KNOW what ballzy is, I've played chicken on a hood of an SVU, fell, and and was run over by it. I have a backbone and will start fights for the RIGHT reasons. But I do not screw with my boss, cause I'm a lazy SOB who thinks I'm above moving my hands.

I think the REASON for this is because some westerners don't beleive in authority. It's understandable, maybe you haven't been in a management position, or have had anyone tell you what to do other than your parents. Prove me wrong, tell me you've been in boot camp, you've told your staff sargeant to go screw himself. Then I'll beleive the crap posted here on Daves.

I don't know why this thread makes me so emotional, lol screw this I'm going for a jog. No hard feelings guys, live long and prosper.

KirbyMagnus

Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Korea

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:38 am Post subject:

I will go above and beyond the call of duty within reason. Most of the time I have plenty of free time to devote to extra activities at the school. I actually get annoyed when I am not invited to help out or join in with school activities. I have to ask the school if there are any events I can get involved in. But fetching the boss' coffee and doing his dry cleaning for him? WTF? By doing these small menial jobs you are letting the boss know you are his snivelling little bitch. No teacher objects to extra work within reason. Many of us who are professional will accept extra work because we like our school and our students. Many of us have a sense of pride in our work. Many of us have a solid work ethic. The OP with his last couple of posts seems to have riled a lot of people. He may have a point about the immaturity and complaining of some teachers here. But the fact he come across as an utterly self-regarding, arrogant and self righteous p r i c k does not help at all.

jkelly80

Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:44 am Post subject:

Authority is power exercised justly. It is short supply in the Land of the Inscrutable Fiat.

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