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[traxxe]

Man, wouldn't you get a little choked up if your wife died and your kids were in the hospital everytime it came up? Clinton's BS was fake and crap. Biden's sentiments can hardly be attributed to fake or false pretexts. The dude lost his family and endured one hell of a hardhsip.

I think Clinton's moments were scumbag elite. Biden was responded in the best possible way he could after Palin asserted she speaks for Joe Six Pack (Didn't Republicans hate on Clinton for saying that?) and Hockey Moms. She said she was middle class and in touch with medical needs.

He responded in the same way. Given the circumstances, it's fully understandable why he would be sentimental despite the length of time that has passed. Seemed genuine to me and he didn't snivel like a baby. He seemed to fight a moment of choking up and powered through.

Regardless of who wins, I don't fault that guy. Now if he does that every debate then I'm with you on calling foul.

[No_hite_pls]

[Gopher]

[Tiger Beer]

[Gopher]

CNN biased against S. Palin.

Headline: "Debate poll says Biden won..."

Then the text backtracks a little: "A national poll of people who watched the vice-presidential debate Thursday night suggests that Democratic Sen. Joe Biden won..."

Then returns to claiming conclusive win: "The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. said 51 percent of those polled thought Biden did the best job..."

Then the disclaimer: "The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points."

Nice.

CNN Reports

[Tiger Beer]

[Ya-ta Boy]

Two polls so far:

CBS Poll: Biden Won Uncommitted Voters

From CBS:

Forty-six percent of the uncommitted voters surveyed say Democrat Joe Biden won the debate, compared to 21 percent for Republican Sarah Palin. Thirty-three percent said it was a tie.
Eighteen percent of previously uncommitted percent say they are now committed to the Obama-Biden ticket. Ten percent say they are now committed to McCain-Palin. Seventy-one percent are still uncommitted.

Both candidates improved their overall image tonight. Fifty-three percent of those surveyed say they now have a better impression of Biden. Five percent say they have a worse opinion of the Delaware senator, while 42 percent say they debate did not change their opinion.

Fifty-five percent say they now have a better opinion of Palin. Fourteen percent say they have a worse opinion, while 30 percent say their opinion hasn't changed.

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/10/cbs_poll_biden_won_uncommitted.html



CNN: Biden Wins, Palin Exceeded Expectations

An insta-poll from CNN:

Fifty-one percent of those polled thought Biden did the best job in Thursday night's debate, while 36 percent thought Palin did the best job.
But respondents said the folksy Palin was more likable, scoring 54 percent to Biden's 36 percent.

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/10/cnn_biden_wins_palin_exceeded.html


Interesting that 5% of the uncommitted now have a worse opinion of Biden, but 14% have a worse opinion of Palin.

[No_hite_pls]

[Gopher]

Nope. If I were "manipulating the data," as you allege, why would I link the story in its entirety? Holy smokes, between forty and fifty percent of "people who watched the debate" declared J. Biden "won." Sweeping victory. And let me guess: you are an Obama-Biden supporter and that is your angle in responding to what I highlighted, no?

In any case, the last time CNN trumpeted its debate poll, it had to admit that it was polling mostly registered Democrats. Probably same story again. And where do you see "undecided voters" in that story? Eye-rolls indeed.

[No_hite_pls]

[Gopher]

See? Simplistic questions asking "Who won?" make perfect sense, no?

We are a month out. Then we shall know who won -- and once-and-for-all.

[Tiger Beer]

Here is a transcript of the debate: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/

One thing I liked that Palin did was call on Biden against other war interests. Bosnia and going into Sudan, both of which he strongly supported. I DO find that stuff to be excessive spending. You can't have education or healthcare for American people, but you can 'save' other people? Uggh. Of course more hypocritical when Republicans do that however.

Palin goes off about Obama being partisan. That was a mistake. Obama constantly speaks of unity which is a very popular message. Palin, on the other hand, always speaks of being about as partisan as you can possibly get and still be running for office.

The BAILOUT is interesting. Obama was giving forewarnings all along, and McCain consistently said the economy is fine and healthy. Palin keeps talking about how we need to help the Main Street people like her and McCain are suggesting. Does PALIN even know what party she is a member of?

TAX RAISES. Palin went off about the stereotype of Dems always support everything that raises taxes. Biden with a great response that McCain supported 477 tax raises, etc. Funny. With the Bush administration, I think it is very safe to say that McCain always voting with Bush significantly raised spending and taxes, no doubt about it. Funny Palin sounds like an uninformed rightwing talk show call-in listener on that one.

HEALTHCARE. Funny, Palin is talking about McCain's plan to give everyone $5,000 to buy insurance. Biden responds how is government going to do that, tax you more to pay for that? Funny.

ENVIRONMENT. Why is Palin trying to sell us as the environment president? That has been laughed off the table by most Republicans. It's almost a joke, every rightwing talk show host is strongly against the environment are as most Republicans like Bush, Thompson, etc...and here Palin is talking about how McCain and her are concerned about greenhouse gases and the like? What? Then she accuses Biden of being against clean emissions...what? Her and McCain are for that, and Biden isn't? WTF is palin talking about there? Biden quickly responds he has never been against clean emissions, etc.

IRAQ. Predictable responses.
SUDAN. Uggh, both candidates agree that MUCHO AMERICAN DINERO should going to Sudan. Biden goes off on how he supports it, then Palin jumps in with her sending Alaska taxpayer money over there as well.

EDUCATION. Palin scores big with education. Does she know that you have to tax the taxpayers more to put money into education though? Kudos to her to suggest it though. Biden reminds her that McCain doesn't support any incease of taxpayer money into education whatsoever. I seriously hope Palin looks into that, and if she is going to be so adamant about it, suggest that 'John' and her party should start.

MAVERICK. I have no clue why Palin keeps talking about her and McCain being mavericks and the nation doesnt want more of the same. She continously stresses that over and over and over again, and what a failed message that is.

--

Ah, I think Palin kinda did okay. I thought she was going to get stuck in corners all night not knowing what to say, and that didn't happen, so she didn't hurt her party at all. She actually said many things that Democrats usually say, which surprised me, and she seemed to think they weren't Democratic core issues, which was interesting to say the least.

[Ya-ta Boy]

Just a thought about Joe's choke up near the end.

His son is leaving for Iraq tomorrow. Would this not be the same son who nearly died in the car accident? It's quite possible that when he mentioned the accident and said he knew what it is like to worry that your child is not going to survive, he might have had Iraq, at least partly, in mind.

[NAVFC]

[aka Dave]

I really don't care about post debate polls, I'm concerned with who seemed to be a better candidate for the offices of the vice presidency and the presidency.

That's all I care about.

And, reading what those wing-nuts at the National Review, it's just a joke. There's no rational critique of the actual debate, there's simply mindless cheeleading (hey, whom does that remind you of). They're ideological mindlessness knows no bounds. That's why you can't debate these people, they just yammer their platitudes, ignoring all reason, evidence, and logic.

Biden won the debate because he was more thoughtful, articulate, measured, and he actually answered the questions (in H.S. debating tournaments, if you don't answer the questions you get zero points. Yeah, I was a semi-nerd).

Palin was telegenic, which is the most overrated quality in the history of American politics. She was folksy - WAIT, THAT'S the most overrated quality in the history of American politics.

The election is actually becoming a question of whether America is a country of complete idiots or a country of relatively reasonable human beings.