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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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 Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| Arm your soul...have u ever been to L? |
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Ed Provencher
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| One thing my school does right is discipline. If a student doesn't complete his homework, their teacher fills out a small card that goes to the homework room teacher who calls the student's parents to inform them that their child will be staying at the hagwon for an extra hour to study. The same card can be used for disruptive students as well. Parents and teachers (Korean and Western) love this system. Students hate it, obviously becuase they don't want to be in a classroom for another hour. It is effective as all hell. |
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kprrok
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Location: KC
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| koreandefence wrote: |
| kprrok wrote: |
| 3 strikes they're out. If they don't want to follow your directs after 3 times when you KNOW they understand the directions, toss them out in the hall. With some students, I only give 2 strikes. |
This is why ESL teachers should at least do some type of training course on childhood development and possibly a course on equality for all students.
Why give some students 2 chances and some 3? Is it to show that you have favorites, is it because you think children respect teachers with no defineable standards, or is it because you didn't think about the impact this type of miss matched system of governance may have on the students? |
Yeah, that could be true. Or it could be that you're an idiot and/or a troll and you don't understand basic logic. Maybe those students who get 3 strikes aren't necessarily my "favorite" students, but those who don't typically make problems. Those who get 2 strikes are the ones who have continually make problems and don't deserve the extra chance. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| That three strike/two strike is BS, all K-Ss understand is fear, and if u can instill that in them (like I have) than no more problems...Nine deuce! |
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EzeWong
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| kprrok wrote: |
| koreandefence wrote: |
| kprrok wrote: |
| 3 strikes they're out. If they don't want to follow your directs after 3 times when you KNOW they understand the directions, toss them out in the hall. With some students, I only give 2 strikes. |
This is why ESL teachers should at least do some type of training course on childhood development and possibly a course on equality for all students.
Why give some students 2 chances and some 3? Is it to show that you have favorites, is it because you think children respect teachers with no defineable standards, or is it because you didn't think about the impact this type of miss matched system of governance may have on the students? |
Yeah, that could be true. Or it could be that you're an idiot and/or a troll and you don't understand basic logic. Maybe those students who get 3 strikes aren't necessarily my "favorite" students, but those who don't typically make problems. Those who get 2 strikes are the ones who have continually make problems and don't deserve the extra chance. |
Don't mean to get between this flame here:
koreandefence is right on this. I understand why you would only give some students 2 chances because they don't deserve it. However, students won't understand. And as soon as you've been labeled unfair, it will be impossible for them to trust the teacher's judgement.
Maybe you're right that they don't deserve the same amount of leiency as the other students. But they will never see it that way. If they see you give everyone else 3 chances, but only 2 to them, they will question what kind of criteria you're basing it on. Are you using favoritism? Are you inconsistent? They won't understand why... and they might assume the worst.
Also, he wasn't trying to troll you. Most classroom phsychology scholars encourage fairness. Fairness requires that you don't play favorites. In addition "basic logic" requires you define the premises... and with your statement they clearly aren't defined and also cannot be assumed. |
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kprrok
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Location: KC
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| EzeWong wrote: |
Don't mean to get between this flame here:
koreandefence is right on this. I understand why you would only give some students 2 chances because they don't deserve it. However, students won't understand. And as soon as you've been labeled unfair, it will be impossible for them to trust the teacher's judgement.
Maybe you're right that they don't deserve the same amount of leiency as the other students. But they will never see it that way. If they see you give everyone else 3 chances, but only 2 to them, they will question what kind of criteria you're basing it on. Are you using favoritism? Are you inconsistent? They won't understand why... and they might assume the worst.
Also, he wasn't trying to troll you. Most classroom phsychology scholars encourage fairness. Fairness requires that you don't play favorites. In addition "basic logic" requires you define the premises... and with your statement they clearly aren't defined and also cannot be assumed. |
How stupid are the kids that you teach? My kids are pretty smart and understand this concept. If you're generally good and make a mistake, you get an "extra" warning. If you've consistently given the teachers a rough time and disrupted class, you don't get that "extra" warning. I'm calling it an "extra" warning because in my class, very very very few students ever get to that point. They know that once they've been warned, they need to straighten up. They're smart that way. |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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rationality
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Some where in S. Korea
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by rationality on Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| koreandefence wrote: |
| kprrok wrote: |
| 3 strikes they're out. If they don't want to follow your directs after 3 times when you KNOW they understand the directions, toss them out in the hall. With some students, I only give 2 strikes. |
This is why ESL teachers should at least do some type of training course on childhood development and possibly a course on equality for all students.
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Well then we sure are lucky to have someone of your knowledge and intellect to help set us straight with your brilliant suggestions and insights into Korean culture and education. |
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EzeWong
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| kprrok wrote: |
| EzeWong wrote: |
Don't mean to get between this flame here:
koreandefence is right on this. I understand why you would only give some students 2 chances because they don't deserve it. However, students won't understand. And as soon as you've been labeled unfair, it will be impossible for them to trust the teacher's judgement.
Maybe you're right that they don't deserve the same amount of leiency as the other students. But they will never see it that way. If they see you give everyone else 3 chances, but only 2 to them, they will question what kind of criteria you're basing it on. Are you using favoritism? Are you inconsistent? They won't understand why... and they might assume the worst.
Also, he wasn't trying to troll you. Most classroom phsychology scholars encourage fairness. Fairness requires that you don't play favorites. In addition "basic logic" requires you define the premises... and with your statement they clearly aren't defined and also cannot be assumed. |
How stupid are the kids that you teach? My kids are pretty smart and understand this concept. If you're generally good and make a mistake, you get an "extra" warning. If you've consistently given the teachers a rough time and disrupted class, you don't get that "extra" warning. I'm calling it an "extra" warning because in my class, very very very few students ever get to that point. They know that once they've been warned, they need to straighten up. They're smart that way. |
Well, the situtation might be different at your school. This might work for you. I'm only skeptical because I've been taught differently, and from what I've learn from classroom phsychology. But I'm not above thinking that your situtation might call for the method you use.
My students are smart too. I don't need to warn them... I never do, my method is to let them keep talking until they shut up themselves. I build a situation where they are treated like adults. I never attack anyone personally, and if I have I do it in a joking way. If you give them respect, they are so suprised by it they start acting differently. Works for me. |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: Re: What do you do with rude/insubordinate students? |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| skconqueror wrote: |
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| (get the waaaahmbulance) |
This quote is soooooooo last season  |
Yeah, your expression is all the rage these days. Why not go all out and tell me to talk to the hand. Stick your eyeroll. |
OH SNAP!!!
Talk to the left 'cause that ain't right!  |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| My favourite was when I had 38, grade two, middle school 'monkey boys' kneeling in the hallway and the school disciplinarian just happend to walk by on patrol... |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Just throw any disruptive students into the hall way. If the student doesn't go, then raise voice in anger and scare the kid out. If that doesn't work, hmmm, haven't experienced that yet, probably grab the kid by the arm and lead the kid out and place the offending kid into the hall. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Just throw any disruptive students into the hall way. If the student doesn't go, then (1) raise voice in anger and scare the kid out. If that doesn't work, hmmm, haven't experienced that yet, probably (2) grab the kid by the arm and lead the kid out and place the offending kid into the hall. |
1- What? And lose face in front of them for losing your temper?
2- Don't grab or touch them aggressively. Just grab their chair and drag it (and them) out into the hall. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| koreandefence wrote: |
This is why ESL teachers should at least do some type of training course on childhood development and possibly a course on equality for all students.
Why give some students 2 chances and some 3? Is it to show that you have favorites, is it because you think children respect teachers with no defineable standards, or is it because you didn't think about the impact this type of miss matched system of governance may have on the students? |
I think you should teach that course. You should also explain absolutely everything about Korea and Korean culture, and show videos of yourself in action with some really rousing patriotic music playing. Also, show lots of reaction shots of adorable, perfect little Korean children responding to and respecting everything you say and do. |
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