Korean Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - This thread has been Palinized by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Speak Korean Now!

Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!

Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

This thread has been Palinized by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next

Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:51 am Post subject:

[quote="huffdaddy"]

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

He is the problem cause no leader in Iran could have been worse.

Code:

Sure thing Joo. He was the evilest man alive. It had nothing to do with the hatred built up over the years do to Western meddling. Keep saying it jenough and maybe you'll believe it.

He was pretty evil. Far worse than Pinochet

and Carter helped bring down the Shah and allowed Khomeni to come to power.

Other mideast regimes don't fall the Shah fell cause Carter made him go soft.

Quote:

Pinning the blame on Carter is just playing the blame game and ignoring years of history that led up to Khomeni's rise. History that those who are blaming Carter are destined to repeat.

Only Carter went to undermine the Shah. Only Carter had dopes who thought Khomeni would be a saint and be Ghandi. Only Carter wouldn't sell him the stuff to put down the revolution.

Thanks Jimmy

[quote]

Quote:

The Kims?

No , not as bad as the Kims. But how many are?

Quote:

Saying that Khomeni has been the second worst leader of the 20th century is quite the stretch, even for you.

When did I say that? I said that Iran was the second most costly foreign policy disaster of the 20th century. and it was.

and only Jimmy Carter with all that was going on in the world at the time went out to undermine the Shah. What was Jimmy Carter thinking?

Quote:

Blame game. Learn some history.

The history is that Carter undermined the Shah. He pressured him to let the radicals out of jail and not to go after them.

Khomeni came to power and Carter is to blame for undermining the Shah. Of course Carter screwed up again by not killing or kidnapping khommeni when he was living in France.

For all his faults Bush at least goes after these guys.

Quote:

taly indicts 31 in alleged CIA kidnapping
26 Americans, 5 Italians to be tried over Milan abduction of terror suspect

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17184663/

Khomeni was a much,much bigger and known target than this guy.

The US needs to do more of this.

The history is that liberal democrats don't know about national security and really aren't interested in it.

Liberal democrats thought Khomeni was Ghandi and a saint . That is the history.

The fact is that now Iran is the second greatest enemy of the US after Al Qaeda. And Jimmy Carter not only allowed it to happen he helped bring about the Iranian revolution.

Were Iran out of the picture the only serious foreign policy challenge for the US would be Al Qaeda. and dealing with Al Qaeda would be a lot easier if Iran were out of the picture.

With Iran out of the picture everything,almost every where gets much easier for the US. Strategically , economically, oil prices - everything. Iran is the most powerful true enemy of the US.

Thanks Jimmy.

Hey Huffdaddy learn some history.

Whoodunnit?

Quote:

uly 13, 1991

Japanese Translator of Rushdie Book Found Slain
By STEVEN R. WEISMAN

TOKYO, July 12 -- The Japanese translator of "The Satanic Verses," by Salman Rushdie, was found slain today at a university northeast of Tokyo.

The translator, Hitoshi Igarashi, 44 years old, was an assistant professor of comparative culture who reportedly studied in Iran in the 1970's. The police said he was stabbed several times on Thursday night and left in the hallway outside his office at Tsukuba University.

It is the second time this month that someone involved with the production of the novel by Mr. Rushdie, the Indian-born author condemned to death by the Iranian authorities two years ago,

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-translator.html

But thanks Huffdaddy I always like the chance to put up the record of Khomeni and those who follow him.

Liberal democrats don't understand national security. With them it is the blame game . Blame the US.

They thought Khomeni was a saint , I wouldn't be surprised if they still do.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:26 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

When did I say that? I said that Iran was the second most costly foreign policy disaster of the 20th century. and it was.

Second most costly? Sheesh. You have absolutely no respect for the lives of those who died in WWII or Vietnam, do you?

Do you realize that no one here is arguing the "goodness" of Khomeni. The thing you don't understand is that Khomeni, no matter how bad he was, was only a symptom, not a cause of the problem. Do you think he's the one who invented anti-Americanism in the mideast?

Consider America's role in the overthrow of Mohammed Massadegh. America's support of SAVAK and their elimination of political dissent. America's unconditional support of Israel. That's were the resentment and anti-Americanism was bred. That's where the likes of Khomeni came from and gained support.

Read a little history and try to understand the relationship between cause and effect. It'll do you some good.

http://www.theworld.org/?q=node/3566
http://www.theworld.org/?q=node/3567
http://www.theworld.org/?q=node/3569
http://www.theworld.org/?q=node/3568

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:03 am Post subject:

huffdaddy wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

When did I say that? I said that Iran was the second most costly foreign policy disaster of the 20th century. and it was.

Khomeni was worse than the Shah.

Jimmy Carter undermined the Shah. There was no reason for it.

He allowed Khomeni to come to power. Horrible mistake. The US still suffers.

The straegic loss was one of the worst the US ever suffered . It is the main cause of US strategic problems today.

When Khomeni came to power the dynamic of security in the mideast changed and the US has never recovered.

Compare the situation before 1979 and after 1979. The answer is clear.
Before 1979 the mideast was bad , after 1979 it got much worse. and the event that made it much worse was Khomeni coming to power.

Liberal democrats don't understand US national security

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:26 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Liberal democrats don't understand US national security

I wouldn't expect you to remember the Cuban missile crisis.

And neocons don't understand cause and effect. History doesn't occur in 4 and 8 year blocks. Unlike you, most people don't forget what happened in the past. Khomeni was merely the chicken coming home to roost. If you want to starting laying blame, start with the British and Eisenhower.

Have you finished brushing up on your Iranian history yet? Here's a little help. From the links I cited before:

Quote:

Iran was anything but an "island of stability." Within days of Carter's visit, the first of the demonstrations that would culminate in the revolution had begun. A popular movement emerged, with Khomeini at its head. But it was not just Islamists. The protests had widespread appeal. The oil boom was highlighting economic disparities. A newly educated middle class was demanding more say in running the country. And the Shah's repression and excesses were alienating even the elite.

If the United States was out of touch, the Shah seemed even more so. He tried to blame the unrest on foreigners. He even pointed the finger at the CIA. Henry Precht, by then head of the Iran desk at the State Department, was horrified.

So there it is. You support a tyrant and violator of human rights over your own President. Go ahead, blame Carter. Blame America. Traitor. You should be ashamed of yourself.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:35 am Post subject:

A little more history for you Joo. Before you start going all Benedict Arnold on us, you should do a little reading.

Quote:

Precht: "Here we were depending on this autocrat to protect American interests in a very key part of the world and it appears that he was some kind of nut! This job was going to be a lot more complex than I thought it would be."

During the course of 1978, the demonstrations continued. The Shah declared martial law. Then came Black Friday.

On Sept 8th, 1978, crowds gathered to demonstrate in Jaleh Square in downtown Tehran. Government troops opened fire on the protestors. Hundreds of people were killed. Gary Sick says it was the moment of no return.

Sick: "It's extremely ugly and it captures the public's imagination the way nothing had before. I think that's the point when it turned into a revolution."

Iran's troubles could not have come at a worse time for the United States. The Carter Administration was consumed by its quest for an Arab Israeli peace. The Jaleh Square massacre occurred during the Camp David summit. Carter placed a phone call to the Shah, but there wasn't much he could do to stop the revolution's momentum. US policy was simply to continue to support the Shah. Again, Gary Sick:

Sick: "You couldn't even raise the possibility of an alternative. Partly because it would be seen as defeatism, you would be in effect pushing the Shah over the cliff if you like. And secondly because nobody had an answer to that next question, that okay if you're so smart and the Shah isn't going to make it what do you suggest? There wasn't any answer to that question. We had made no preparation. There was no plan B."

The demonstrations continued to build. Millions of people at a time were turning out onto the streets. The Shah asked Saddam Hussein to expel Khomeini from Iraq. Saddam obliged him. The Ayatollah made his way to France. His followers kept up the pressure. They called for independence from the United States, they called for an Islamic government, they called for an end to the monarchy.

On January 16th, 1979, the Shah announced he was leaving Iran. He said he was going on vacation. But Iranian people reacted as if it was the end of his reign.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:00 am Post subject:

[quote="huffdaddy"]

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Liberal democrats don't understand US national security

Quote:

I wouldn't expect you to remember the Cuban missile crisis.

Kennedy wasn't a liberal.

Quote:

And neocons don't understand cause and effect. History doesn't occur in 4 and 8 year blocks. Unlike you, most people don't forget what happened in the past. Khomeni was merely the chicken coming home to roost. If you want to starting laying blame, start with the British and Eisenhower.

1979 and before 1979.

Khomeni was the worst option.

Carter had no business messing with the Shah not at that time.

[quote]Have you finished brushing up on your Iranian history yet? Here's a little help. From the links I cited before:

Quote:

Carter got it going by forcing the Shah to go soft.

Quote:

If the United States was out of touch, the Shah seemed even more so. He tried to blame the unrest on foreigners. He even pointed the finger at the CIA. Henry Precht, by then head of the Iran desk at the State Department, was horrified.

So there it is. You support a tyrant and violator of human rights over your own President. Go ahead, blame Carter. Blame America. Traitor. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Better to support the Shah than let Khomeni come to power . Khomeni was worse than the Shah you Jimmy Carter apologist.

And Carter isn't my president not any more he is a private citizen and fair game for criticism. I am blaming Carter for pressuring the
Shah to back down and I am blaming him for not getting rid of Khomeni while he was vunerable in France and while he was on his way to Iran.

Khomeni worse than the Shah .More oppressive than the Shah.

Huffdaddy you are becoming a moonbat.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:02 am Post subject:

huffdaddy wrote:

A little more history for you Joo. Before you start going all Benedict Arnold on us, you should do a little reading.

Quote:

Could have been bottled up before it got to that point .

And Khomeni was in France. He should have been assassinated or thrown in a secret prision.

Of all the tyrants in the mideast why is only the
Shah got overthrown. Cause he was pressured to go soft. By Carter

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:23 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Kennedy wasn't a liberal.

Dude. You seriously skipped out on your history classes.

I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." - JFK

Quote:

Better to support the Shah than let Khomeni come to power . Khomeni was worse than the Shah you Jimmy Carter apologist.

Better a Carter apologist than a Shah apologist. Traitor.

Quote:

Could have been bottled up before it got to that point .

Yeah, in 1953. By not overthrowing Mosaddeq. Well before Carter was President.

Quote:

And Khomeni was in France. He should have been assassinated or thrown in a secret prision.

And the millions of other Iranians who opposed the Shah? You would have assassinated them to? Add mass murderer to your glowing resume.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:20 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Well I know enough to say that Carter had people who called Khomeni a saint and thought he was Ghandi.

Like I said, Carter's biggest failing was poor intel. That intel was in decline well before Carter came into the picture.

Quote:

I know enough that Carter pressured the Shah to let the radicals out of Jail.

You mean the political prisoners?

Quote:

I know enough to know Carter wouldn't sell the Shah stuff.

Such as?

Quote:

and I am perceptive enough to see 1979 as a turning point in the mideast.

Your perception is off.

Quote:

Besides I see you complaining about US interference in 1953.

Yes. It set the anti-American wheels in motion.

Quote:

One final note. There is no excuse for what the Bathists . Khomeni followers or the Al Qaedists do. Saying they are reacting to US policy is like saying Hitler was a reaction to the terms of WW I.

So you think the Treaty of Versailles was a wise move? Kick a dog enough and he's gonna bite you. That's something the imperialist right should have learned by now. But they're like you. They don't study their history.

thiophene

Joined: 15 Sep 2007

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:51 am Post subject:

Joo, you really piss me off. And you, a hater and a deceiver, pissimg me off really pisses me off. Well done. How can anyone justify, even slightly, killing innocent civilians because they have to god forbid adjust their gas usage due to high $ (gasp ). Sadly, I'm not too surprised some Americans find this so tragic. Have some perspective assholes.

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:09 am Post subject:

huffdaddy wrote:

Consider America's role in the overthrow of Mohammed Massadegh.

"America's role" in X, Y, or Z with you people is usually code-word for the allegation-driven, U.S.-centric, prosecutorial discourse.

Have you considered Britain and others' role in the overthrow of M. Mossadeq? How about Mossadeq's role? How about domestic Iranian forces? In your simplistic construction of this event, you see "America's role" and nothing else. Why is that? What is your agenda in discussing this event?

You present some links you probably hastily Googled. But what have you read? What documents, for example through FRUS, or what monographs, such as M.J. Gasiorowski and M. Byrne, eds., Mohammad Masaddeq (2004)? Anything in the real world? Or did some leftist professor, once-upon-a-time, bent on discrediting and demonizing the United States, merely program you with the look-what-the-omnipotent-Americans-did! Now-they-are-reaping-what-they-have-sown trope?

Years ago, the Senate's Church Committee concluded that American officials held exaggerated notions on the power they wielded in world affairs. I submit that they were not the only ones.

And two other things: Was JFK a liberal? A. Schlesinger, Jr. once called him a realist cloaked as an idealist. Others, including historian S.G. Rabe, have concluded that he prioritized fighting and winning the Cold War above all else. That makes him a Cold Warrior and not a liberal, like, say, FDR -- just ask the Berliners.

Also, 1979 is indeed the turning point in the Middle East, especially with respect to the rise of militant, antiAmericanist, Islamic extremism, and millions of ignorant and simplistic people like you, such as those Pakistani extremists who seized the American embassy that year and "convicted" one foreign service officer in a mock trial for America's allegedly consciously causing "all the world's problems." (Cited in S. Coll, Ghost Wars [2004], 35.)

Last edited by Gopher on Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total

ontheway

Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:22 am Post subject:

Let me see if I understand this confusing thread: Jimmy Carter gave Khomeni a subprime mortgage in the critical year of 1979 and because of the CIA coup which overthrew Lehman Brothers in 1953, the CIA sold credit default swaps on Iranian oil futures contracts when it was selling at $30 a barrel, so that now Bernanke is sending money to Iran to unwind the financial crisis that has come because of $100 a barrel oil and none of this would have happened if Joo would have gone to Paris in 1976 and shot Khomeni. It would have taken only one wise lone hero to save the world back then and there would be no financial meltdown today. Actually, I was in Paris and ran into Jimmy while I was there, but I didn't see Joo or Khomeni, although thousands of big Ks supporters were everywhere in Paris in those days.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

huffdaddy wrote:

Consider America's role in the overthrow of Mohammed Massadegh.

"America's role" in X, Y, or Z with you people is usually code-word for the allegation-driven, U.S.-centric, prosecutorial discourse.

Does the same apply to Joo's "Carter's role" in X, Y, or Z?

Quote:

Have you considered Britain and others' role in the overthrow of M. Mossadeq? How about Mossadeq's role? How about domestic Iranian forces? In your simplistic construction of this event, you see "America's role" and nothing else. Why is that? What is your agenda in discussing this event?

I assume you just skimmed over the posts here and never read them carefully. Or you're just interested in taking another pot shot at me. If you read carefully, I think you'd realize that the simplistic "America's (in this case Carter's) role" construction is Joo's. So go after him, big boy.

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject:

You asked those of us who are reading "to consider America's role in the overthrow of [M. Mossadeq]." Some of us have in fact made a point to consider this event in much detail. You then lectured Joo on "history." And those of us who had already considered this event in much detail found what you had to say shallow, lacking, to say the least. In any case, Jeane J. Kirkpatrick and Ronald W. Reagan turned J. Carter upside down on these issues long ago. Last edited by Gopher on Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:32 pm; edited 2 times in total

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject:

thiophene wrote:

Joo, you really piss me off. And you, a hater and a deceiver, pissimg me off really pisses me off. Well done.

How can anyone justify, even slightly, killing innocent civilians because they have to god forbid adjust their gas usage due to high $ (gasp Rolling Eyes

). Sadly, I'm not too surprised some Americans find this so tragic. Have some perspective assholes.

You are a hater and a decivier and a moonbat as well. Anyway you have no problem with bigotry just as long as it is directed at the right group.

and stoping Khomeni saves lives. Khomei was more oppressive than the Shah.

By the way it is okay to hate Khomeni followers , Al Qaedists and Bathists.

Friends of yours thiophene?

Quote:

Khomeini fatwa 'led to killing of 30,000 in Iran'

By Christina Lamb, Diplomatic Correspondent
Last Updated: 3:55PM BST 19 Jun 2001

CHILDREN as young as 13 were hanged from cranes, six at a time, in a barbaric two-month purge of Iran's prisons on the direct orders of Ayatollah Khomeini, according to a new book by his former deputy.

More than 30,000 political prisoners were executed in the 1988 massacre - a far larger number than previously suspected. Secret documents smuggled out of Iran reveal that, because of the large numbers of necks to be broken, prisoners were loaded onto forklift trucks in groups of six and hanged from cranes in half-hourly intervals.

Gruesome details are contained in the memoirs of Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri, The Memoirs of Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, one of the founders of the Islamic regime. He was once considered Khomeini's anointed successor, but was deposed for his outspokenness, and is now under house arrest in the holy city of Qom.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/1321090/Khomeini-fatwa-'led-to-killing-of-30,000-in-Iran'.html

Display posts from previous:

	Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Page 4 of 5

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe