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Cultural and moral imperialism

 
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Taiwantroll



Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Cultural and moral imperialism Reply with quote

A topic which was brought up in another post and I thought I would comment on...

I think that many of the problems facing the world today stem from the idea that 'we know better.' The idea that, we know what is right and so it is our responsibility to go out into the world and change it. I think this is dangerous thinking. It threatens the independence and independent development of other cultures and countries. It is arrogant and ignorant to believe that we can change others. And more importantly, these changes often do not work.

So what do I mean? And how does this work? Well, in Western countries such as America cultural and moral imperialism can come in many forms. Occasioanally it can come in the form of direct intervention as in the case of the Iraq war. It can also come in the form of NGOs or non-governmental organizations going into developing countries to offer aid, often with assistance of promises of governmental aid from developed countries.

I think that we need to respect other countries and cultures and refrain from attempting to interfere. Allow those countries and cultures to make changes on their own and in their own time. Only then will those changes be effective.

I apologise I don't have time now to cite examples. I will later today.

_________________________________________________________

Okay, well let's start with Iraq. Iraq is filled with strife with so many different factions all vying for power. Fanatical factions too, willing to sacrifice themselves to achieve their goals. America claimed that by overthrowing Saddam they would restore democracy to Iraq and bring freedom to its people. But how free are Iraqis when they are afraid to go outside for fear of being blown up. Sure Saddam was a dictator, but there was no where near the level of violence under Saddam's regime. And Americans still believe that they can solve the crisis. I think only Iraqis can solve Iraqi problems, which is what they should have been allowed to do from the beginning.

_______________________________________________________

More to come.
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saw6436



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon, ROK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. Stay the hell out of other nations. Genocide is Sudan? Not my problem. Let the Sudanese supply their own solutions to their own problems. Just because my culture hates genocide doesn't make it wrong.
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Ukon



Joined: 29 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saw6436 wrote:

Just because my culture hates genocide doesn't make it wrong.


Wow.....do you kick small children for fun and set ants on fire?
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're conflating two different ideas: there's ethnocentrism which is the idea that the way we do things in our culture is best, something which all cultures are guilty of; and there's modern imperialism which is America (and its allies) saying we can do whatever we like because we own the world. The one does not grow out of the other. America invaded Iraq because the people running it wanted it to and not because of any sort of cultural attitude. On the contrary, they spent months and months selling it to the people and went ahead with it over a great deal of popular opposition.
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endo



Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cultural relativism is for sissies!
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Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saw6436 wrote:
I agree. Stay the hell out of other nations. Genocide is Sudan? Not my problem. Let the Sudanese supply their own solutions to their own problems. Just because my culture hates genocide doesn't make it wrong.


Let the Nazis take over Europe. Its not my problem... Rolling Eyes
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billybrobby



Joined: 09 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pop quiz, hot shot!

Let's say there was a faraway region that contained two cultures, and you were the president of the US. In the region, the dominant culture makes an attempt to practice cultural imperialism and wipe out the weaker culture. Would you step in to prevent this?
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best to pay for another degree. You need to find people who are paid to read this stuff and then get a job where you are paid to write it for an audience who gives a flying crap.

Remember, if you think you have a good idea, it's probably already been thunk. Your OP is no exception. Sorry.
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Cultural and moral imperialism Reply with quote

Taiwantroll wrote:
A topic which was brought up in another post and I thought I would comment on...

I think that many of the problems facing the world today stem from the idea that 'we know better.' The idea that, we know what is right and so it is our responsibility to go out into the world and change it. I think this is dangerous thinking. It threatens the independence and independent development of other cultures and countries. It is arrogant and ignorant to believe that we can change others. And more importantly, these changes often do not work.

So what do I mean? And how does this work? Well, in Western countries such as America cultural and moral imperialism can come in many forms. Occasioanally it can come in the form of direct intervention as in the case of the Iraq war. It can also come in the form of NGOs or non-governmental organizations going into developing countries to offer aid, often with assistance of promises of governmental aid from developed countries.

I think that we need to respect other countries and cultures and refrain from attempting to interfere. Allow those countries and cultures to make changes on their own and in their own time. Only then will those changes be effective.

I apologise I don't have time now to cite examples. I will later today.

_________________________________________________________

Okay, well let's start with Iraq. Iraq is filled with strife with so many different factions all vying for power. Fanatical factions too, willing to sacrifice themselves to achieve their goals. America claimed that by overthrowing Saddam they would restore democracy to Iraq and bring freedom to its people. But how free are Iraqis when they are afraid to go outside for fear of being blown up. Sure Saddam was a dictator, but there was no where near the level of violence under Saddam's regime. And Americans still believe that they can solve the crisis. I think only Iraqis can solve Iraqi problems, which is what they should have been allowed to do from the beginning.

_______________________________________________________

More to come.


Saddam was basically put in power by the U.S., and he was viewed as a liability when the Iranians were out of the picture and the Soviet Union was gone. That's what it was basically about. Iraq under Saddam was horrible in many ways. About 250,000 Iraqi soldiers died fighting Iran in a pointless war. Thousands of Iraqis were executed by his regime.
Thousands of Kurds were gassed using British and American technology.
The war against Iraq, however, was illegitimate from an international law perspective. The US may have supported Georgia trying to reclaim break-away areas while it encouraged Albanians in Kossovo to secede from Serbia. Imperialism is not what the world needs, but it doesn't mean I think we should simply watch Sudan engage in genocide.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Cultural and moral imperialism Reply with quote

Adventurer wrote:

Saddam was basically put in power by the U.S., and he was viewed as a liability when the Iranians were out of the picture and the Soviet Union was gone. That's what it was basically about.


This is wrong.

Saddam came to power in a coup in 1968. Thereafter, he nationalized the Western-controlled oil industry. Saddam wasn't useful to the West until the Iran-Iraq War almost a decade later.
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Cultural and moral imperialism Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Adventurer wrote:

Saddam was basically put in power by the U.S., and he was viewed as a liability when the Iranians were out of the picture and the Soviet Union was gone. That's what it was basically about.


This is wrong.

Saddam came to power in a coup in 1968. Thereafter, he nationalized the Western-controlled oil industry. Saddam wasn't useful to the West until the Iran-Iraq War almost a decade later.


You are correct only in a direct fashion. The Ba'ath were backed by the CIA. You do know that, don't you? He was with the Ba'ath.
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saw6436



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon, ROK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read Clausewitz.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adventurer wrote:
You are correct only in a direct fashion. The Ba'ath were backed by the CIA. You do know that, don't you? He was with the Ba'ath.


And your problem is in your reducing the Ba'ath Party and Saddam to "backed by the CIA."

There is much more to these phenomena than whatever CIA involvement you may want to allege. Why not expand your horizons beyond the U.S.-centric discourse, Adventurer? Michel Aflaq and Arab nationalism, for example.
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