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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| What do I think of what? |
Blaming Carter for the Iran-Iraq War, radical Islam, 9/11, et al.
But yes, your are correct in one thing. I haven't dedicated my life to studying all of the issues I post about here, in a forum for English teachers in Korea. I suppose if you want people who measure up to your intellectual standards you should probably look somewhere other than the internet. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Blaming Carter for the Iran-Iraq War, radical Islam, 9/11, et al. |
I do not blame J. Carter for these things. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Blaming Carter for the Iran-Iraq War, radical Islam, 9/11, et al. |
I do not blame J. Carter for these things. |
So why don't you call Joo out on his assertions?
I'd have assumed, in the absence of any chip on the shoulder, that you'd be more apt to agree with my assertion that the Mideast situation can't be boiled down to one single "turning point."
Any points I rise vis a vis the 1953 coup are merely to demonstrate his fallacies of causality. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that we cannot "boil down" Middle-Eastern affairs to "one single turning point." And that is why I challenge your very flawed presentation of the Mossadeq affair.
As far as the entire range of postwar Middle-Eastern history through the present, that problem remains too broad to address. You have raised the Mossadeq affair. And I have responded. If you would like to raise any other specifice affair, then raise it. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| I agree that we cannot "boil down" Middle-Eastern affairs to "one single turning point." And that is why I challenge your very flawed presentation of the Mossadeq affair. |
It was in response to Joo's "blame Carter" POV. While I wouldn't blame you for avoiding his posts, you should at least read one or two before jumping into the middle of the fray. Context Gopher, context. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Now I understand. You were not exchanging with me. You want the last word -- and you want to come off as witty. So we can let your "context Gopher, context" witticism rest as is, or you can come back with yet another, and this time I will let it go. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Now I understand. You were not exchanging with me. You want the last word -- and you want to come off as witty. So we can let your "context Gopher, context" witticism rest as is, or you can come back with yet another, and this time I will let it go. |
Good for you. Let it go. And remember, if you don't read the posts and don't understand what the discussion is about, stay away. Now bugger off with your petulant provocations. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: |
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[quote="huffdaddy"]
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
The first way to do it is to bring down your enemies - not beat up on your firends. |
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| I guess hypocrisy isn't one of Carter's strengths. |
I think Carter had no idea about protecting US interests. Besides Iran's revolution meant less freedom not more freedom. Results count for more than principles.
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| While I hope you are right, I believe your optimism is a little misplaced. On paper, AQ is not that strong. No air force, no navy, no tax base. But they manage to hit the US pretty hard. Since Vietnam we've seen how the rules of engagement have changed. The biggest, fastest, and strongest isn't always the winner. |
Well an arms race is the US prefered method of war.
AQ got through in the end the US will get them.
The US just needs the right combination of strategies.
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| I heard you before. But the seeds of change were planted well before. |
What do people say about the Russia revolution of 1917? More than that Khomeni was in France which means he was there for the taking.
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| Why is one a game changer and not the other? |
Different situations.
Iran is next to weak oil rich states
NK is next to strong nations that for the most part are not rich in oil.
NK could already mess up S. Korea with artillery. So they can already intimidate South Korea w/o nuclear weapons . NK doesn't have anyone to put a nuclear sheild over. Iran could use it to protect Hizzbollah. Or shield themselves from suffering the consequences of terror acts. Also I think NK is looking for money. Iran is looking for something else.
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| His relationship with the Saudis might prove otherwise. |
Actaully after 9-11 the relationship was very bad infact Iraq war II was about Saudi Arabia.
Have you seen this?
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S Arabia 'real reason for war'
NEWS.com.au ^ | April 3, 2004
FORGET Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD). The real reason the United States invaded Iraq was Saudi Arabia, according to a US intelligence analyst.
Dr George Friedman, chairman of the United States private sector intelligence company Stratfor, said the US had settled on WMD as a simple justification for the war and one which it expected the public would readily accept.
Dr Friedman, in Australia on a business trip, said the US administration never wanted to explain the complex reasons for invading Iraq, keeping them from both the public and their closest supporters.
"That, primarily, was the fact that Saudi Arabia was facilitating the transfer of funds to al-Qaeda, was refusing to cooperate with the US and believed in its heart of hearts that the US would never take any action against them," he said.
Dr Friedman said the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the US prompted the strategy to hunt down al-Qaeda wherever it was to be found. But that proved exceedingly difficult.
"The US was desperate. There were no good policy choices," he said.
"Then the US turned to the question - we can't find al-Qaeda so how can we stop the enablers of al-Qaeda."
He said those enablers, the financiers and recruiters, existed in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
But the Saudi government variously took the view that this wasn't true or that they lacked the ability and strength to act, he said.
Dr Friedman said in March last year, the Saudis responded to US pressure by asking the US to remove all its forces and bases from their territory. To their immense surprise, the US did just that, relocating to Qatar.
He said Saudi Arabia and al-Qaeda shared a number of beliefs including that the US could not fight and win a war in the region and was casualty averse. There was a need to change that perception.
But close by was Iraq, the most strategically located nation in the Middle East, bordering Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey and Iran.
"If we held Iraq we felt first there would be dramatic changes of behaviour from the Saudis," he said. "We could also manipulate the Iranians into a change of policy and finally also lean on the Syrians.
"It wasn't a great policy. It happened to be the only policy available."
Dr Friedman said US President George W Bush faced the difficulty of explaining this policy, particularly to the Saudis. Moves to link Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda failed completely.
"They then fell on WMD for two reasons," he said.
"Nobody could object to WMD and it was the one thing that every intelligence agency knew was true.
"We knew we were going to find them. And we would never have to reveal the real reasons.
"The massive intelligence failure was that everybody including Saddam thought he had WMD. He behaved as if he had WMD. He was conned by his own people." |
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1110567/posts
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| You think they are crazy for believing in their cause and not America's? Don't expect the world to wear the same ideological glasses as you. That is what's crazy. |
Irans goal is to control the gulf or spread their revolution through the mideast . If the continue then they need to be taken out.
There goal is the kHomeni revolution . Which included stuff like killing off the translators of the Satanic Versus.
If the really insist on the KHomeni revolution which by definition is to force the US out of the mideast by force and then to use the oil to blackmail the US on foreign policy , trade policy and even UN votes. Well then the US better force them to give up their war.
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Japanese Translator of Rushdie Book Found Slain
By STEVEN R. WEISMAN
TOKYO, July 12 -- The Japanese translator of "The Satanic Verses," by Salman Rushdie, was found slain today at a university northeast of Tokyo.
The translator, Hitoshi Igarashi, 44 years old, was an assistant professor of comparative culture who reportedly studied in Iran in the 1970's. The police said he was stabbed several times on Thursday night and left in the hallway outside his office at Tsukuba University.
It is the second time this month that someone involved with the production of the novel by Mr. Rushdie, the Indian-born author condemned to death by the Iranian authorities two years ago, has been assaulted... |
http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-translator.html
Is not doing this kind of stuff Kow taoing to the US?
Anyway if Iran insists on having nuclear weapons and also insists on continuing their war then they need to be taken out. And to to that the right way the US needs a game changer to match Iran
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If he was making the same argument from the left vis a vis the right you'd call him a moonbat. And Gopher would call him ab |
No I think Desoza just exagerates one of of Bin Ladens reasons |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
I think Carter had no idea about protecting US interests. Besides Iran's revolution meant less freedom not more freedom. Results count for more than principles. |
Except when fighting the cold war. Then principles count more.
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| The US just needs the right combination of strategies. |
Easier said than done. The US has too many soft targets to protect.
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What do people say about the Russia revolution of 1917? |
http://www.emayzine.com/lectures/russianrev.html
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| The underlying causes of the Russian Revolution are rooted deep in Russia's history. |
(and no, I haven't studied Russian history extensively)
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| More than that Khomeni was in France which means he was there for the taking. |
The Shah died not long after his ouster. Do you believe his 19 year old son (who had been studying in the US) would have been able to take the reigns of the country? If not, then what happens?
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| NK could already mess up S. Korea with artillery. So they can already intimidate South Korea w/o nuclear weapons . NK doesn't have anyone to put a nuclear sheild over. Iran could use it to protect Hizzbollah. Or shield themselves from suffering the consequences of terror acts. Also I think NK is looking for money. Iran is looking for something else. |
Even without nukes Iran has been rather immune from retaliation for terrorist acts. Why?
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| His relationship with the Saudis might prove otherwise. |
Actaully after 9-11 the relationship was very bad infact Iraq war II was about Saudi Arabia.
Have you seen this? |
No Joo, I've never seen that. Why haven't you posted it earlier?!?
While it may have been a part of the reason, I doubt it was the only reason. And given our success in Iraq, it seems like that justification has backfired.
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| You think they are crazy for believing in their cause and not America's? Don't expect the world to wear the same ideological glasses as you. That is what's crazy. |
Irans goal is to control the gulf or spread their revolution through the mideast . If the continue then they need to be taken out. |
I'm not sure why you consider the Mideast worth protecting. Outside their oil they've done nothing for us. Reduce dependency on oil and let them kill each other off.
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If he was making the same argument from the left vis a vis the right you'd call him a moonbat. And Gopher would call him ab |
No I think Desoza just exagerates one of of Bin Ladens reasons |
Words have meaning. What if I started a thread called "George Bush and his Responsibility for 9/11"? Wouldn't you scream "moonbat"? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: |
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[quote="huffdaddy"]
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
I think Carter had no idea about protecting US interests. Besides Iran's revolution meant less freedom not more freedom. Results count for more than principles. |
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Except when fighting the cold war. Then principles count more. |
No then results count too.
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Easier said than done. The US has too many soft targets to protect. |
sure agreed. The US still can find the right combination to win.
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What do people say about the Russia revolution of 1917? |
http://www.emayzine.com/lectures/russianrev.html
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| The underlying causes of the Russian Revolution are rooted deep in Russia's history. |
(and no, I haven't studied Russian history extensively)
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| More than that Khomeni was in France which means he was there for the taking. |
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The Shah died not long after his ouster. Do you believe his 19 year old son (who had been studying in the US) would have been able to take the reigns of the country? If not, then what happens? |
I think the Shahs number two takes over
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Even without nukes Iran has been rather immune from retaliation for terrorist acts. Why? |
For several reasons.
1) cold war until 1989
2) Iran's change in govt in 1997
3) The US was pinned down in Iraq and Afghanistan
4) The US really doesn't have the right kind of airpower to knock out Iran.
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No Joo, I've never seen that. Why haven't you posted it earlier?!? |
My mistake.
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I'm not sure why you consider the Mideast worth protecting. Outside their oil they've done nothing for us. Reduce dependency on oil and let them kill each other off.
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Of course , but there is no guarantee that the US is going to be free from mideast oil anytime soon.
But you do offer at least one game changing strategy for the US.
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Words have meaning. What if I started a thread called "George Bush and his Responsibility for 9/11"? Wouldn't you scream "moonbat"? |
I would have to see the contents of the thread.
One more thing Jimmy Carter had the pentagon tell the Shah's generals to allow Aytollah Khomeni to return to Iran . |
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