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Must one be a right-wing religious loon to vote Republican?
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Americans: Which of the following do you primarily associate with Republican voters?
Barking-mad right-wing religious fundamentalists & zealots
34%
 34%  [ 8 ]
War-mongerers
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
Neocons
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
Those concerned with national security
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Paleocons
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Fiscal conservatives
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Social conservatives
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
Libertairan Republicans
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Friends, family and neighbours
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
Other
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 23

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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:13 pm    Post subject: Must one be a right-wing religious loon to vote Republican? Reply with quote

Disclaimer: That was not meant to include normal sane people with religious beliefs btw, just the fundamentalist lunatic fringe.

Reading some of their policies, it can be difficult to believe that so many people would vote for the American Republican Party. But then, as a European, they seem extremely right-wing from my perspective. Stuff like banning abortions (with the VP apparently believing this appropriate even for rape victims), and advocating abstinence programmes for teenagers being mainstream platforms is just amazing to me. So I kind of associate that party with mediaeval attitudes to sexual issues, war-mongering and general backwardness.

So if you think this is all bollocks, school me!

Twisted Evil
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blade



Joined: 30 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Must one be a right-wing religious loon to vote Republic Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
Disclaimer: That was not meant to include normal sane people with religious beliefs btw, just the fundamentalist lunatic fringe.

Reading some of their policies, it can be difficult to believe that so many people would vote for the American Republican Party. But then, as a European, they seem extremely right-wing from my perspective. Stuff like banning abortions (with the VP apparently believing this appropriate even for rape victims), and advocating abstinence programmes for teenagers being mainstream platforms is just amazing to me. So I kind of associate that party with mediaeval attitudes to sexual issues, war-mongering and general backwardness.

So if you think this is all bollocks, school me!

Twisted Evil

Bigbird don't you know that US politics are just complex for use foaming at the month Anti-American European liberals to understand? Gopher will probably be along to tell you so himself so I thought I save him trouble of replying to this thread Very Happy
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IncognitoHFX



Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I have nothing against people who vote based on economics. I know some people who support the Republicans based solely on economics and not on the social issues.

It's so sad that you can't vote for a party based solely on that anymore. Social issues have become part of the package and most would rather vote on that alone.

While I do think Republican voters are missing a few apples from their trees, I acknowledge that a lot of people vote Right because the left alienates them. It's called the "SUV Right" phenomenon. The left has a history of ignoring the average citizen causing them to swing to the right when the left appears to be too homosexual.

This election, though, I think we're going to have an "SUV Left" phenomenon.

"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voting on social issues annoys the hell out of me. (Note: I consider some issues to be multifacted, such as health care)

When someone votes primarily on social issues (left, right, or center regardless), it tells me:

a) the person doesn't have the average intellect or the average discipline to engage the issues

b) the person is way too dependent upon the government for solutions to what should be personal issues
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Voting on social issues annoys the hell out of me. (Note: I consider some issues to be multifacted, such as health care)

When someone votes primarily on social issues (left, right, or center regardless), it tells me:

a) the person doesn't have the average intellect or the average discipline to engage the issues

b) the person is way too dependent upon the government for solutions to what should be personal issues


OK. So is abortion a social issue?

If a candidate in the electorate I live was threatening to make it illegal for women to have abortions, I would vote against them. Would that mean I was "way too dependent upon the government for solutions to what should be personal issues" or would it mean that I did not believe that politicians had any right at all to meddle in such a personal issue as abortion?
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Voting on social issues annoys the hell out of me. (Note: I consider some issues to be multifacted, such as health care)

When someone votes primarily on social issues (left, right, or center regardless), it tells me:

a) the person doesn't have the average intellect or the average discipline to engage the issues

b) the person is way too dependent upon the government for solutions to what should be personal issues


OK. So is abortion a social issue?

If a candidate in the electorate I live was threatening to make it illegal for women to have abortions, I would vote against them. Would that mean I was "way too dependent upon the government for solutions to what should be personal issues" or would it mean that I did not believe that politicians had any right at all to meddle in such a personal issue as abortion?


Abortion is a social issue.

It would mean the latter. Its only an issue b/c some on the right-wing think your uterus is relevant to them. However, my determination is predicated on the assumption that there's a grave, imminent threat to your right to choose.

There's a way to be antagonistic about being pro-choice that would qualify as a culture war provocation.
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing Reagan did, and the reason he is so beloved by the right, was that he was able to unite all of those groups together. It explains to a great degree the success of the Republicans in the last twenty years. Also that and Newt Gingrich's Contract with America solidified this unity between libertarians who hate all government 'interference', the religious right and fiscal conservatives. Bush did a lot of damage to that in his eight years, but I have strong doubts about whether this coalition is about to disband.

Reagan was America's Mao.

Just look at the way the right bandies about the term "culture war" and think about its companion term in Mao's China.


Last edited by bangbayed on Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good answer, Kuros. Laughing
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bangbayed wrote:

Reagan was America's Mao.


FYI

Quote:
Millions of people in China reportedly had their human rights annulled during the Cultural Revolution. Millions more were also forcibly displaced. During the Cultural Revolution, young people from the cities were forcibly moved to the countryside, where they were forced to abandon all forms of standard education in place of the propaganda teachings of the Communist Party of China.

Estimates of the death toll, civilians and Red Guards, from various Western and Eastern sources[5] are about 500,000 in the true years of chaos of 1966�1969. Some people were not able to stand the cruel tortures, they lost hope for the future, and simply committed suicide.

One recent scholarly account asserts that in rural China alone some 36 million people were persecuted, of whom between 750,000 and 1.5 million were killed, with roughly the same number permanently injured.[29] In Mao: The Unknown Story, Jung Chang and Jon Halliday claim that as many as 3 million people died in the violence of the Cultural Revolution


I'm sure you want to walk that comment back a bit.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Abortion is a social issue.

It would mean the latter. Its only an issue b/c some on the right-wing think your uterus is relevant to them. However, my determination is predicated on the assumption that there's a grave, imminent threat to your right to choose.

There's a way to be antagonistic about being pro-choice that would qualify as a culture war provocation.


"There's a way to be antagonistic..."

I hope you recognize a little more unambiguously just how focused some on the left are on, what is to them, the only determining issue in how they vote.

The abortion issue is far from a right-wing-only club, Kuros.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
I hope you recognize a little more unambiguously just how focused some on the left are on, what is to them, the only determining issue in how they vote.


Um, if you are suggesting that this pertains to me, you are very mistaken. Fortunately, in any place that I have ever voted, there has never been a candidate (and serious contender) proposing such a thing. So this issue has never ever determined my vote. But then there are is no Republican Party were I live and vote. I was giving a hypothetical example.


Last edited by Big_Bird on Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was not talking to you, Big_Bird.

I listened to a hardcore feminist/women's studies professor go on and on and on about how we were all doomed because the Republicans were inevitably going to, and very soon at that, reverse Roe vs. Wade in order to kill poor black women (note the class, race, and gender, in this configuration, rather than the usual race, class, and gender) across America.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher, I've heard (a couple of tims in RL) and read (on the web) Americans saying they vote Republican because the democrats are pro-abortion. It goes both ways.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is your objection that "it goes both ways" on point to my:

Gopher wrote:
The abortion issue is far from a right-wing-only club, Kuros.


Some people just lack the capacity to agree.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:

Some people just lack the capacity to agree.


No. That's not so. Razz I disagreed again, see!
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