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I think someone is going to try to assassinate Obama
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mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:53 am Post subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0&eurl How many third worlders reside in the south?

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:05 am Post subject:

Totally off-topic, but I wonder if Al Jazeera is as unsparing and forthright in their attacks on homophobia in the American bible belt. Serious question.

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:07 am Post subject:

You are asking whether the American South is not more homophobic than the Middle East? Who knows? Who knows how to measure such things? I do not believe Southern states criminalize and execute homosexuals, though. In my own experience and impression, no place on Earth excels in violent homophobia and intolerance than Latin America.

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:16 am Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

You are asking whether the American South is not more homophobic than the Middle East? Who knows? Who knows how to measure such things? I do not believe Southern states criminalize and execute homosexuals, though.

In my own experience and impression, no place on Earth excels in violent homophobia and intolerance than Latin America.

My point is that Al Jazeera gets praised for "speaking truth to power" about this or that bad aspect of the USA that most western media won't cover, but I wonder if they would champion causes that would be outside the comfort zone of their target audience.

Last edited by On the other hand on Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:16 am Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Totally off-topic, but I wonder if Al Jazeera is as unsparing and forthright in their attacks on homophobia in the American bible belt. Serious question.

They don't value tolerance and the like. We do. They don't fail to live up to their values, we fail to live up to ours.

I really don't care what the source of anything is anymore.

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:32 am Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Sounds so obvious it seems hardly worth questioning. People's "speaking Truth to Power" is (a) not altruistic but always self-interested; and (b) almost always directed at "them," that is, an external target.

Tiger Beer

Joined: 07 Feb 2003

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:56 am Post subject:

Quote:

I think the American South gets a bad rap for it. I occassionally frequent this other board where people post in their respective U.S. states.

People are CONSTANTLY asking questions about being gay and with a partner and if they are okay to be in Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville or wherever. Routinely the Southerners respond that they aren't backward hicks and they all have gays all over the place down there, etc.

Obviously some people in the U.S. do hate gays enough to attempt to deny certain priveleges that would be acceptable if they were man and woman, but I think it stems from large political groups centered around the Christian Right, and less to do with a geographical area as a whole.

That being said, those same boards, most of the Southerners DO complain about Californians or Northern Yankees moving to their states with all of their 'liberal' values, however. They generally seem to complain about 'rampant development' - strip malls and the sort more than anything, which is interesting because those really aren't 'liberal' values.

bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:43 am Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

In my own experience and impression, no place on Earth excels in violent homophobia and intolerance than Latin America.

Your own experience? Let's hear more about that.

(Be sure to tell it in all its juicy detail, too.)

bangbayed

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:07 am Post subject:

mises wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0&eurl

How many third worlders reside in the south?

Those people aren't even from the South! They're from Ohio, a swing state! Just imagine what the people in the solid McCain states are like.

Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:31 am Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Gopher wrote:

I am not sure what I can say about Al Jazeera. I can say I am glad Al Jazeera does exist. It's emergence was quite revolutionary for that part of the world. It exposed many issues that are quite important. Many taboo topics were discussed on the air. Even an atheist Syrian woman was on the air discussing her views. They also air various Israelis on the Left and show many different voices. That said, I do think they have their major biases.

I think it is good to read the American papers, Al Jazeera, the French press, the BBC. I don't really trust one particular source, because everyone has some kind of agenda, some more than others. I am not sure of Al Jazeera's exact leanings. Some in Lebanon felt that Al Jazeera's leanings were against that of the government of Fouad Seniora and more on the side of their rivals. I don't know if it's true or not. I don't follow Al Jazeera enough to evaluate them in detail.

I really doubt Al Jazeera would heavily cover things that make Arabs look very bad like the atrocities in Darfur. You should expect Al Jazeera to have somewhat of an Arab nationalist slant and ignore certain wrongs in the region. The same occurs with the U.S. media. They don't give us much of a story when it comes to what's being done in the name of the tax payers of the country. Al Jazeera will report on how American troops are killing civilians in Afghanistan, perhaps, and the US media will sort of ignore it, and then the US media will focus on the atrocities in Darfur, perhaps, and some of the Arab networks may not report it much.
The American media has been too focused on nationalism. It was different in the past. I am not sure why things changed.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:29 am Post subject:

mises wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0&eurl

How many third worlders reside in the south?

Third-world is so cold war. Its called developed and developing now.

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:40 am Post subject:

bacasper wrote:

Gopher wrote:

In my own experience and impression, no place on Earth excels in violent homophobia and intolerance than Latin America.

Your own experience? Let's hear more about that.

(Be sure to tell it in all its juicy detail, too.)

You imply that I am gay and then would use this as part of your campaign to discredit my views?

No, I am not gay; I am straight. Being gay would not discredit me, however.

In any case, Latin Americans, especially in Mexico, Brazil, and Chile, where I have lived and interacted with them for extended periods, tend to be openly and violently homophobic. I will give you an example: I once hosted a group of Chilean women, educational administrators, in San Diego for a couple of weeks. They loved it, talked of wanting to live there, sending their children to school there, etc. Took them to a restaurant I like in Hillcrest. We randomly passed two gay men who were holding hands while walking on the street, they looked on silently, and you could feel their silence, Bacasper, prudishly judging these men, and then they turned against San Diego and California just like that. Could not leave fast enough. They bitterly complained about the maricones walking on the street as they pleased, etc.

These are the kinds of examples I love to cite, by the way, on this messageboard where people love to use "the rest of the world" and its goodness and progressive thinking, as a foil to contrast against America and Americans, who, of course, desperately need to modify their racist and intolerant worldviews and behavior in order win "the rest of the world's" approval. Take F. Castro's views and policies on homosexuality, for example -- and recall that this is the govt M. Moore wants the American govt to follow in healthcare policy...

Quote:

The persecution of the gay Cuban novelist Reinaldo Arenas (1943-1990) symbolises the worst homophobic excesses of Fidel Castro's revolutionary Cuba: a period in the 1960s and 1970s when the witch-hunts of homosexuals in Cuba prefigured the oppression of gay Chileans during the Pinochet dictatorship.

Although Cuban queers are no longer savagely repressed, it is nonsense for the Cuban government and its apologists in the West to claim there is no anti-gay discrimination in Cuba today.

It is true that Havana has none of the death squads that murder queers in Bogot�, but this is hardly proof of Castro's liberalism.

Moreover, socialist Cuba may have the highest standards of health, education and housing of any Latin American country, and a literacy rate exceeding that of the United States. Great! But what is the point of excellent social welfare policies if people are not free and human rights are not respected?

Like many other lesbian and gay Cubans, Reinaldo Arenas was initially an ardent supporter of the revolution, running away from home at the age of fourteen to join the rebels who were fighting to overthrow the American-backed Batista dictatorship.

After Castro's victory in 1959, Arenas benefited from the new government's mass education programme, eventually gaining a place at the University of Havana and winning official acclaim for his first novel, Singing from the Well. But his follow-up book, Hallucinations, was refused publication and had to be smuggled to a publisher overseas. This act of defiance resulted in repeated police raids and the confiscation of his manuscripts.

The campaign of harassment culminated in his arrest in 1973 on a false charge of sexual assault. Fearful of his fate, Arenas escaped from prison and made an unsuccessful attempt to float to Florida on an inner tube. Recaptured, he spent the next two years brutalised inside El Morro prison, until he agreed to secure his freedom by renouncing his "deviant" writings.

Arenas eventually got out of Cuba in the 1980 Mariel Harbour exodus, when Castro decided to get rid of "antisocial" dissidents, criminals and homosexuals by allowing these "scum" to emigrate to the US...

Gay Rights and Wrongs in Cuba

Last edited by Gopher on Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:59 am; edited 4 times in total

Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:53 am Post subject:

bacasper wrote:

Gopher wrote:

In my own experience and impression, no place on Earth excels in violent homophobia and intolerance than Latin America.

Your own experience? Let's hear more about that.

(Be sure to tell it in all its juicy detail, too.)

South America may have Left movements, but many places in South America are very anti-gay. That's quite true. Remember, there is a strong machismo type culture in Latin America. Also, in Russia they are extremely anti-gay in that country. I remember how they smashed up some people and roughed them up in Moscow. I am not going to say Latin America is the worst place, but it is not one of the best place. It is easy to say a certain region is the worst, when there are so many places filled with homophobia including Russia. The Middle East is rather bad as well.

In Egypt, two years ago, people were arrested for being gay. It has happened in the past in Lebanon. In Canada, homoseuxality is more accepted in Quebec than in Alberta. Ireland was admitted to the EU after agreeing to be open when it comes to gay people. I don't think people should really judge the US on homophobia since homophobia is prevalent all over the world. Many French people oppose gay marriage. Anyway, who said the US is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to homophobia? I don't think anyone said that. Certain regions and cities of the US are more likely to be more accepting of homosexuals than others. I think everyone can agree with that. In countries where the people are very traditional and bound by tradition and that often connects to religiousity, homosexuals are not very tolerated.

Last edited by Adventurer on Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total

Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: ...

Quote:

Totally off-topic, but I wonder if Al Jazeera is as unsparing and forthright in their attacks on homophobia in the American bible belt. Serious question.

I never saw anything on Al-Jazeera that deals with homosexuality, but I can't recall anything on CNN or BBC about homosexuality, either (that goes beyond coverage of gay pride parades).

What I will say, though, is that during my recent stint in the ME, Al Jazeera (international) was awesome. I had CNN and BBC as well, but they had excellent in-depth shows about things like punk rock in the PRC I know that doesn't wow the CE crowd, but there was a lot more reporting from places that you wouldn't get unless it was in a very patronizing fashion.

Riz Khan (CNN's Q and A guy) is now there, and the bottom line is I trust others to report on any given country better than its own news service. BBC reports America better than CNN, and CNN does the UK better than the BBC. Al Jazeera is actually based out of Bahrain, and Bahrain really doesn't figure that prominently into global politics. I found them as critical of Islam as other news services, but far more diversified in terms of what they were reporting on. Terrorists send them videos because they are the major news outlet, not because they're soliciting videos from terrorists. Their journalistic standards are not sub-par. I wouldn't have understood this if I hadn't moved there.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject:

Quote:

South America may have Left movements, but many places in South America are very anti-gay.

Left and right mean different things in different cultures. I don't know if the Latin American left has accepted tolerance for homosexuals to the extent that has the left in Western Europe and North America.

Quote:

In Canada, homosexuality is more accepted in Quebec than in Alberta.

Absolutely. Alberta is not a place where two men could walk around hand in hand without being yelled at, though I don't think there would be violence.

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