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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| It doesn't matter, Obama's not going to win KY. |
That is because Kentucky, as you know, "is not ready" for an African-American president; it is a racist place, dominated by hyperreligious fanatics who chant "USA! USA!" even while asleep.  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| It doesn't matter, Obama's not going to win KY. |
That is because Kentucky, as you know, "is not ready" for an African-American president; it is a racist place, dominated by hyperreligious fanatics who chant "USA! USA!" even while asleep. |
Pretty much. No, I'm serious, if there's one place where that description is true, its Eastern Kentucky.
However, I want to point out, I live in Louisville. Gay tolerance capital of the Midwest. We're tolerant in Louisville, so much so that Obama beat Hillary in Jefferson Co, one of only two where he won in the primaries.
But I'm sure more of the people in KY are voting for McCain rather than voting against an African-American. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Very well, acknowledged. Eastern Kentucky blends into West Virginia. Not the brightest spot on planet Earth. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| One of the news shows says Obama was to make a campaign stop in Kentucky this weekend. Maybe there's an outside chance...??? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| One of the news shows says Obama was to make a campaign stop in Kentucky this weekend. Maybe there's an outside chance...??? |
Really? When? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| PBRstreetgang21 wrote: |
The irony about this is that Obama is more war mongering than McCain is. If you look at the last debates, McCain has pretty much said we need to stay focused on the wars we have and thats that, it is OBAMA who has said we need to invade Pakistan.
I voted for Obama (absentee) but I do have to say, I did do in the hope that HE doesnt start another war, since it is McCain who is talking about mainting the current level of conflict rather than expand it. |
Let me repost something I posted a full year ago:
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In 2001, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Air Force Gen. Richard Myers said, "It is very clear that Afghanistan is only a small piece of the US campaign that could last more than a lifetime." This ideology has been a barrage articulated not only by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al., it is also the litany coming from the Democratic party, e.g. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.
BO said on Sept. 4, 2007: "Hit Iran where it hurts." "Americans need to come together to confront the challenge posed by Iran. The war in Iraq has strengthened Iran which poses for us the greatest strategic challenge in the Middle East in a generation. Iran supports violent groups and sectarians in Iraq. Iran fuels terror and extremism in the Middle East. Iran is making progress on a nuclear program in defiance of the international community. Iran calls for Israel to be wiped off the map." He follows this up by calling for a pre-emptive military strike on Iran.
On Aug. 3, 2007, speaking at Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School of the International School for Scholars, BO called for a US attack on Pakistan, more troops in Afghanistan, and unilateral attacks on Iran and Pakistan, and strengthening the US military and intelligence apparatus across the planet.
You could not fit a sliver of paper in between the ideologies of Dick Cheney and Barack Obama |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry. No details. I think I heard it from one of the reporters on Washington Week, but maybe another program. Someone said he'd be in Kentucky and West Virginia this weekend. Nothing further.
Maybe make a call to your local campaign headquarters? A TV station? |
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thiophene
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Iran is not fighting a war. they're on defense right now and will be until America and Israel stop being so greedy. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| thiophene wrote: |
| Iran is not fighting a war. they're on defense right now and will be until America and Israel stop being so greedy. |
Very crude restatement of Tehran's wartime propaganda position.
One of the many things that make me comfortable with B. Obama himself is that I know he does not buy this nonsense for a second. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| thiophene wrote: |
| Iran is not fighting a war. they're on defense right now and will be until America and Israel stop being so greedy. |
9/11 Commission Finds Ties Between al-Qaeda and Iran
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| Senior U.S. officials have told TIME that the 9/11 Commission's report will cite evidence suggesting that the 9/11 hijackers had previously passed through Iran |
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,664967,00.html
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Is there a link between Mugniyah and al-Qaeda?
Mugniyah met with al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in the mid-1990s, according to the court testimony of Ali Abdelsoud Mohammed, a naturalized U.S. citizen and former U.S. army sergeant who later became a senior aide to bin Laden. After his arrest in 1998 in connection with the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, Mohammed testified that he arranged several meetings between bin Laden and Mugniyah in Sudan. Bin Laden reportedly admired Mugniyah's tactics, particularly his use of truck bombs, which precipitated the United States' withdrawal from Lebanon. According to Mohammed, bin Laden and Mugniyah agreed Hezbollah would provide training, military expertise, and explosives in exchange for money and man power. It is not known, however, whether this agreement was carried out. The relationship between Hezbollah and al-Qaeda is not entirely friendly, as explained in this Backgrounder. |
http://www.cfr.org/publication/11317/#8
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By Noah Pollak
It is long past time that one important piece of fantastical rubbish be finally sent on its way: this is the idea that Islamists maintain some kind of fastidious ethnic and theological separatism when it comes to who they're willing to work with on killing people. The co-option of Hamas and Islamic Jihad (Sunni Arab) by Iran (Shia Persian) is one piece of reality that intrudes on this comforting notion; so is the Iran-Syria alliance, along with the reality of Iranian support for both Shia and Sunni insurgents in Iraq.
A final nail in the coffin comes today from Eli Lake, the New York Sun's talented national security reporter (and good friend). Eli's scoop is about the National Intelligence Estimate, an unclassified summary of which will be released today, but whose classified final working draft concludes that:
One of two known Al Qaeda leadership councils meets regularly in eastern Iran, where the American intelligence community believes dozens of senior Al Qaeda leaders have reconstituted a good part of the terror conglomerate's senior leadership structure.
Iranian hospitality toward Al Qaeda is not a new story -- but what is new is the apparent fact that one of two Qaeda leadership councils meets in Iran, and with the complicity of the regime. As Eli notes:
An intelligence official sympathetic to the view that it is a matter of Iranian policy to cooperate with Al Qaeda disputed the CIA and State Department view that the Quds Force is operating as a rogue force. "It is just impossible to believe that what the Quds Force does with Al Qaeda does not represent a decision of the government," the official, who asked not to be identified, said. "It's a bit like saying the directorate of operations for the CIA is not really carrying out U.S. policy."
Stories like these reinforce another very basic idea: terrorism has a return address. |
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001492.html
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| On al-Qaeda, the picture is more murky. Iran and Osama bin Laden's movement are hardly natural allies � Tehran almost went to war with al-Qaeda's Taliban hosts in Afghanistan in 1998, following Taliban massacres of Afghan Shiites. The extremist theology that inspires both the Taliban and al-Qaeda sees Shiites as infidels, although bin Laden is on record advocating unity for purposes of anti-American jihad. The reformist elected leadership in Tehran has sought to repair its relationships with the West and rehabilitate Iran diplomatically, but the hard-liners may have hedged their bets. It remains unlikely that the government of President Mohammed Khatami has made common cause with al-Qaeda operatives, although it has long been alleged that hard-liners in the Revolutionary Guard have unofficially provided some with shelter in Iran. Al-Qaeda may also have set up shop in the predominantly Sunni border region of eastern Iran, where central government authority is more limited and the authorities have lost thousands of men in battles with smugglers. |
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,455276,00.html
| Quote: |
Tuesday, October 09, 2007
Iran's Timeline of Terror
I followed the link at the end of the article to his essay published September 11, 2007 at The Claremont Institute.
"Iran's Proxy War Against America, (PDF)" covers the evidence of Iranian links to al Qaeda and other terrorist groups regardless of their Sunni, Shiite or Palestinian sympathies. ......
November 4, 1979
Fifty-two American citizens are taken hostage by �students� loyal to Ayatollah Khomeini. They are held for more than a year, until January 20, 1981. The kidnappings are part of the Iranian revolution, which serves as a model for Sunni terrorist groups like Ayman al-Zawahiri�s Egyptian Islamic Jihad.
April 18, 1983
Iran�s master terrorist, Imad Mugniyah, orchestrates the first significant Islamist suicide attack against America: the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut. Establishing a modus operandi for terrorists in the years to come, the attacker utilizes a van packed with explosives.
October 23, 1983
Using massive truck bombs, Hezbollah�s suicide bombers simultaneously attack the U.S. Marine Barracks and a housing complex for French Paratroopers in Beirut, Lebanon. Al-Qaeda would later adopt simultaneous suicide bombings as its preferred method for committing attacks.
December 12, 1983
Iranian-backed terrorists bomb the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait. A close relative of Imad Mugniyah is convicted by a Kuwaiti court and sentenced to death for his role in the bombing. Other attackers,
also supported by Iran, are imprisoned. The terrorists come to be known as the �Kuwait 17� or �Dawa 17.� 75 iran�s proxy war against america
March 16, 1984
William Buckley, the CIA�s station chief in Beirut, is kidnapped and later tortured-to-death by Imad Mugniyah�s Hezbollah. Buckley�s kidnapping is one in a series of Hezbollah�s kidnappings from the early 1980s through the early 1990s. Dozens of Americans are kidnapped and Hezbollah frequently demands an exchange for the Kuwait 17. Hezbollah�s kidnappings lead to the biggest scandal of President Ronald Reagan�s tenure, the Iran-Contra affair, after the Reagan administration agrees to exchange arms for the hostages.
September 20, 1984
Hezbollah terrorists strike the U.S. Embassy annex in Beirut with a truck bomb.
December 3, 1984
Mugniyah�s operatives hijack Kuwait Airways Flight 221. The hijackers attempt to barter for the release of the Kuwait 17.
June 14, 1985
Mugniyah�s terrorists hijack TWA Flight 847. Once again, the hijackers attempt to barter for the release of the Kuwait 17. When the hijackers� demands are denied, they beat and kill a U.S. Navy serviceman, Robert Dean Stethem, who happened to be on the flight. Incredibly, Germany granted parole to one of the hijackers in December 2005.
1990
According to Ali Mohamed, a top al-Qaeda operative in U.S. custody, Ayman al-Zawahiri�s Egyptian Islamic Jihad partners with Iran in a planned coup attempt in Egypt. Tehran trains EIJ terrorists for the coup attempt, which is ultimately aborted. Iran also pays al-Zawahiri $2 million for sensitive information concerning 76 national security studies the Egyptian Government�s plans to raid several islands in the Persian Gulf.
1991
Iran and Sudan, then the world�s only Islamist states, forge a strategic alliance. They begin to jointly export terrorism throughout the world.
April 1991
Hassan al-Turabi hosts the first Popular Arab Islamic Conference in Sudan. The conference provides a forum for disparate forces in the Middle East who oppose American presence in the region to come together. Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Iraqi and Iranian representatives all attend the meeting.
February 26, 1993
Terrorists connected to al-Qaeda and the global terror network bomb the World Trade Center using a rental truck packed with explosives. The bombers� colleagues plot a follow-on attack against landmarks in the NYC area. There is no known evidence that Iran had a hand in these events. It is clear, however, that several of the plotters had ties to Hassan al-Turabi�s Sudan. Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, the spiritual leader of the two leading Egyptian terrorist groups (both of which will join al- Qaeda) and who was living in the New York metropolitan area, is later convicted for his involvement in the attacks. Reports surface that he and his organization received financial assistance from Iran.
1993
According to Ali Mohamed, Imad Mugniyah and Osama bin Laden meet in Sudan. Bin Laden expresses his desire to model al- Qaeda after Hezbollah. In particular, bin Laden expresses interest in Mugniyah�s bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut in 1983 77 iran�s proxy war against america and similar attacks. They agree to work together against America and the West.
1993
According to Jamal al-Fadl, an al-Qaeda operative in U.S. custody, bin Laden meets a leading Iranian sheikh in Sudan. The purpose of the meeting is to put aside any differences between their competing brands of Islam in order to come together against their common enemy: the West. The meeting is just the first of several between bin Laden and Iran�s spiritual leaders.
1993
Hezbollah and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps train al- Qaeda�s terrorists in camps in Sudan, Lebanon and Iran. Among the terrorists trained are some of bin Laden�s most trusted lieutenants and al-Qaeda�s future leaders.
1993
Egypt and Algeria cut off diplomatic ties with Iran. Both nations accuse Iran and Sudan of supporting Sunni terrorism, including terrorist groups affiliated with al-Qaeda. Egypt will blame Iran for supporting both the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and the Islamic Group throughout the 1990�s.
November 13, 1995
Two bombs are detonated, nearly simultaneously, at the Saudi National Guard training facility in Riyadh, killing five Americans. The suspects are captured and confess to being inspired by Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden denies responsibility, but praises the attack. It is likely al-Qaeda�s first terrorist attack inside the Saudi Kingdom. 78 national security studies
November 19, 1995
An al-Qaeda suicide bomber destroys the Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan. The CIA�s Bob Baer later learns that Mugniyah�s deputy assisted al-Qaeda in the attack and that one of bin Laden�s top terrorists remained in contact with Mugniyah�s offi ce months afterwards.
May 1996
Bin Laden is expelled from Sudan, but the 9/11 Commission reports that �intelligence indicates the persistance of contacts� between al-Qaeda and Iran even after al-Qaeda�s relocation to Afghanistan. Bin Laden and al-Qaeda maintain an ongoing presence in Sudan, despite not being �formally� welcome.
June 21 - 23, 1996
Tehran hosts a summit for the leading Sunni and Shiite terrorist groups. It is announced that the terrorists will continue to focus on U.S. interests thoughout the region. Mugniyah, bin Laden, and a leading member of the EIJ reportedly forge the �Committee of Three,� under the leadership of Iran�s intelligence chief, to focus their joint efforts against American targets.
June 25, 1996
Hezbollah terrorists, operating under the direction of senior Iranian officials, bomb the Khobar Towers apartment complex in Saudi Arabia. Contemporaneous reports by both the State Department and the CIA note that al-Qaeda is also suspected of playing a role. The 9/11 Commission would later find �indirect evidence� of al-Qaeda�s involvement. The evidence includes intelligence indicating that al-Qaeda was planning a similar operation in the months prior and that bin Laden was congratulated by other al-Qaeda operatives, including Ayman al-Zawahiri, shortly after the attack. 79 iran�s proxy war against america
July 1996
According to Bob Baer, the Egyptian Islamic Group�an ally of bin Laden�s al-Qaeda�is in contact with Mugniyah.
1996
According to Bob Baer, there is �incontrovertible evidence� of a meeting between bin Laden and a representative of the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS).
August 7, 1998
Al-Qaeda�s suicide bombers simultaneously destroy the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. It is al-Qaeda�s most spectacular attack prior to 9/11. The attack is clearly modeled on Hezbollah�s attacks in the early 1980s. Indeed, the al-Qaeda terrorists responsible were trained by Hezbollah in the early 1990s. There is evidence that Iran also provided explosives used in the attack.
October - November 2000
Imad Mugniyah and his lieutenants personally escort several of the 9/11 muscle hijackers out of Saudi Arabia on flights to Beirut and Iran. In all, eight to ten of the hijackers travel through Iran on the way to 9/11.
December 2000
Ramzi Binalshibh, al-Qaeda�s key point man for the 9/11 plot, applies for visa at the Iranian Embassy in Berlin. His visa application is approved.
January 31, 2001
Ramzi Binalshibh arrives at Tehran International airport. He does not return to Germany until February 28, 2001. The purpose of his trip to Iran remains a mystery. The 9/11 Commission does not mention Binalshibh�s trip to Iran. 80 national security studies
Early September 2001
Binalshibh flees to Iran shortly before the 9/11 attacks.
September 11, 2001
Nineteen al-Qaeda hijackers execute al-Qaeda�s largest operation to date, killing nearly 3000 Americans. Many of the details surrounding the plot, including who financed the attack, remain a mystery.
October 2001
According to a high-level Taliban detainee at Gitmo, Iran offers the Taliban Government assistance in retreating from Afghanistan.
October 2001
Numerous press reports indicate that Iran aids the retreat of hundreds of al-Qaeda and Taliban members from Afghanistan. Some al-Qaeda operatives enjoy safehaven in Iran to this day. Among them is Said al-Adel, who is reportedly the third highest ranking member of al-Qaeda and was trained by Hezbollah during the early 1990s, and Saad bin Laden, Osama�s heir apparent.
April 11, 2002
Al-Qaeda carries out the first attack ordered by bin Laden since 9/11: a suicide bomber destroys a synagogue in Tunisia, killing nineteen people. According to NBC News, Saad bin Laden contacted the cell responsible for the attack from his safehaven in Iran. Suleiman Abu Ghaith, bin Laden�s spokesman, also claims al-Qaeda�s responsibility for the attack from his abode in Iran.
End of 2002 - Spring 2003
According to former Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet, senior al-Qaeda leaders discuss the acquisition of nuclear weapons from their safe haven in Iran. In fact, al-Qaeda�s �nuclear 81 iran�s proxy war against america chief,� Abdel al-Aziz al-Masri, is one of many senior terrorists living in Iran.
May 12, 2003
Under orders from Saif al-Adel and Saad bin Laden, who are operating from Iran, al-Qaeda�s terrorists simultaneously strike three separate housing complexes in Riyadh Saudi Arabia. Another al- Qaeda agent thought to be responsible for the attack flees to Iran before he can be captured.
May 16, 2003
One dozen al-Qaeda bombers attack several targets in Casablanca, Morocco. Saad bin Laden, living in Iran, is reportedly in contact with the cell shortly before the attack.
2004 � present
Iran supplies advanced IED technology to the insurgents in Iraq. There is growing evidence of Iranian support for both Sunni and Shiite insurgency groups in Iraq. Iran continues to harbor senior al-Qaeda leaders as the terrorist network reorganizes.
January 20, 2007
IRGC and Hezbollah terrorists kill five American soldiers in Karbala, Iraq
January 2007 � present
Numerous IRGC and Hezbollah terrorists, who are responsible for arming and training terrorist groups in Iraq, are captured by American and Iraqi forces. 82 national security studies. |
http://demediacraticnation.blogspot.com/2007/10/irans-timeline-of-terror.html[/quote] |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| PBRstreetgang21 wrote: |
| I voted for Obama (absentee) but I do have to say, I did do in the hope that HE doesnt start another war, since it is McCain who is talking about mainting the current level of conflict rather than expand it. |
"Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran" strike a bell? Or "100 years in Iraq"? Those are McCain routine messages that he supports and backs up.
Obama isn't going to start a WAR on PAKISTAN. He said he would go after Osama Bin Ladin, not start another war with a new nation-state. It just so happens that Bin Ladin is on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border, and Obama implied he would continue the 'war on terror' (as it is popular with voters), and would have a goal of capturing Bin Ladin (something oddly and strangely lacking by the the much more war-mongerer Bush). |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| PBRstreetgang21 wrote: |
| I voted for Obama (absentee) but I do have to say, I did do in the hope that HE doesnt start another war, since it is McCain who is talking about mainting the current level of conflict rather than expand it. |
"Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran" strike a bell? Or "100 years in Iraq"? Those are McCain routine messages that he supports and backs up.
Obama isn't going to start a WAR on PAKISTAN. He said he would go after Osama Bin Ladin, not start another war with a new nation-state. It just so happens that Bin Ladin is on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border, and Obama implied he would continue the 'war on terror' (as it is popular with voters), and would have a goal of capturing Bin Ladin (something oddly and strangely lacking by the the much more war-mongerer Bush). |
Iran was talking about a world with the US before McCain said bomb Iran.
Besides since Iran has been engaged in a low level war against the US for a long time what McCain said was understandable.
The problem is not what McCain said - the problem is the Bathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists war against the US.
Since the US has already being conducting operations in Pakistan for a long time there was no reason for Obama to say what he did. In what he said made things more difficult for the US. |
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thiophene
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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It's too bad America's ego is so hurt. They can't swallow the fac that they don't have their hands in Iranian pockets. A war in Iran would be illegal, immoral, and catostrophic. Sorry USA/Israel, you can't always get what you want, the world has a say too. There is no good reasn to attack Iran that isn't backed by very very greedy people. Once the greed stops, we can all move towards peace.
note: I don't think other powerful nations aren't to blame for Iran's active right to self defense AND sovereignty, but there is only 1 evil empire and its greedy little sister wanting to kill innocent civilians for greed...and are thus the only ones worth mentioning.
note2: Stating the obvious, but I can be against a war in Iran and disagree with Iranian politics.
Stop hating and start loving people! |
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The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| The Hammer wrote: |
| If insane John McCain is elected there is no doubt that more people on this planet will be killed by the American war machine. 3rd worlders watch out! |
There seems only a slight chance of J. McCain's winning the election at this point, so I hope you might relax.
In any case, what exactly do you see B. Obama doing? Not "killing more people on this planet by the American war machine?" What do you believe he will do in foreign affairs, especially in the Third World? Mind you, his predecessors include: W. Wilson, FDR, H. Truman, JFK, LBJ, Jimmy Carter, and B. Clinton -- and today, Zbigniew Brzezinski is advising him on national security.
Let me be sure you understand my point. My politics here are well-known, as is my own refusal to stand with most of those who stand near and nearly all of those who support B. Obama because I find them beyond annoying and intolerable. But I do not see any leadership problems whatsoever in world affairs, or any harm to the American position, under the Obama Administration. In fact, I predict he will do at least as well as B. Clinton. In other words, not the kind of change that you people seem to ascribe to him -- especially when contrasting him against a J. McCain presidency.
But none of you see that just now, do you? I will be here. I will be here when the majority on this messageboard turns against B. Obama because he failed to carry out their extremely unlikely idealistic, utopian dreams. You people will be calling him "Hitler" and "a Nazi." And I will be here to laugh at you. Because at the end of the day, you are looking for a messiah who does not exist. |
I'm sorry dude. I was talking about Ayers. It's all about Ayers. If Obama is elected Ayers will kill more Americans. Red Alert: Ayers - Ayers - Ayers. We've got to get to the bottom of Obama's relationship with Ayers. This is something I hope John McCain fights hard for! |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:02 am; edited 2 times in total |
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