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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
Don't you think it's a bit chickenshit for Powell to 'endorse' Obama when the guy has a 14-point margin in the polls and the election is only days away...? Why not 'endorse' him - or McCain, for that matter - six months ago, when his voice would have made a difference either way?
Powell is the political equivalent of those guys you can see on the weekend up on Hooker Hill in Itaewon, hanging around the entrances to the bars...he wants in on the action, but he's too chickenshit to walk through the door or pay the going price. |
I think you should get off your high horse when judging a man who risked his life in combat in Vietnam. We are talking about a Vietnam veteran, and McCain is also a Vietnam vet. McCain is good friends with Colin Powell, and Colin Powell is a Republican. Powell decided to endorse Obama when he got incensed with the negativity of the McCain campaign when it started using Karl Rove type tactics.
I do believe Colin Powell is tired of some extremists on the right and certain people who use an extreme amount of negativity, and he finds the GOP has been associated with way too much negativity in his mind. That's the impression I got from watching his latest press conference. He believes Obama's election would represent some kind of change of course.
Powell also believes that many of the cities need investments in infrastructure, America has many problems, and he doesn't think the GOP will address those problems. If you think Powell is wrong, then that's your right, but I happen to respect the man, and I always will. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Adventurer wrote:
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| I think you should get off your high horse when judging a man who risked his life in combat in Vietnam. |
Respectfully, Adventuerer, I don't think that Powell's service in Vietnam should make him automatically exempt from criticism when he chooses to get involved in politics. I think he can be critiqued like any other player in the game.
Now, having said that, over to MoS' post...
| Quote: |
Don't you think it's a bit chickenshit for Powell to 'endorse' Obama when the guy has a 14-point margin in the polls and the election is only days away...? Why not 'endorse' him - or McCain, for that matter - six months ago, when his voice would have made a difference either way?
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Actually, from the point-of-view of doing the most benefit for the candidate, an endorsement at this stage might be more effective. Some of the polls are starting to show a narrowing race in the last days of campaigning, and an endorsement at this time could be just the shot-in-the-arm that Obama needs.
Of course, I don't know if these are the considerations that Powell had in mind when he decided to endorse now. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
Don't you think it's a bit chickenshit for Powell to 'endorse' Obama when the guy has a 14-point margin in the polls and the election is only days away...? Why not 'endorse' him - or McCain, for that matter - six months ago, when his voice would have made a difference either way?
Powell . . . wants in on the action, but he's too chickenshit to walk through the door or pay the going price. |
QFT. I don't well understand the liberal adulation for Powell. He's just another politico who couldn't hack it as SecState. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Adventurer wrote:
| Quote: |
| I think you should get off your high horse when judging a man who risked his life in combat in Vietnam. |
Respectfully, Adventuerer, I don't think that Powell's service in Vietnam should make him automatically exempt from criticism when he chooses to get involved in politics. I think he can be critiqued like any other player in the game.
Now, having said that, over to MoS' post...
| Quote: |
Don't you think it's a bit chickenshit for Powell to 'endorse' Obama when the guy has a 14-point margin in the polls and the election is only days away...? Why not 'endorse' him - or McCain, for that matter - six months ago, when his voice would have made a difference either way?
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Actually, from the point-of-view of doing the most benefit for the candidate, an endorsement at this stage might be more effective. Some of the polls are starting to show a narrowing race in the last days of campaigning, and an endorsement at this time could be just the shot-in-the-arm that Obama needs.
Of course, I don't know if these are the considerations that Powell had in mind when he decided to endorse now. |
On the other hand, sure, Powell can be criticized, because he is involved in politics. However, I don't think he should be called a coward, really. I don't think he is a coward. He has too much of a focus on trying to be the loyal soldier and comrade in arms type. However, one must consider that McCain is a friend of Powell's. Powell is the type who has been so focused on military type loyalty, the "We will all go down together mentality" has been a big part of his life it seems.
As far as him having been a bad Secretary of State, I disagree with that statement. He did quite well under the first George Bush where he was appreciated. He was not appreciated in his son's administration. He was treated as capable in the first administration. How did he all of a sudden become incapable? If you have a horrible working environment, then you will not perform as well. That's true for anyone. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| ...He's just another politico who couldn't hack it as SecState. |
That is not what B. Obama says...
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On Monday, Obama said Powell would advise him if he becomes president.
"He's already served in that function, even before he endorsed me," Obama told NBC. "Whether he wants to take a formal role, whether there's something that's a good fit for him, I think is something that he and I would have to discuss..." |
CNN Reports |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pushing for chief of staff.
I wouldn't mind seeing him at State or Defense.
I really can't see him accepting anything else.
But, it does sound like Obama has something in mind for him. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I never thought he would reenter govt service after W. Bush. But I imagine that a B. Obama Administration would enable him to redeem himself as well as redeem the American govt's faults and shortcomings these last eight years. |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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That's why I thought Chief of Staff would be the place for him. His understanding for how Washington works, his experience at NSA and State, his ties in the Military, how could yuou leave him out.
The Chief of Staff position gives him all the access the ability to help and guide without any real public visibility.
Think about who is(was) Bush's Chief of Staff, Clinton's?
(Without doing a wiki on it) |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher is being sarcastic Jandar. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Jandar wrote: |
| Think about who is (was) Bush's Chief of Staff, Clinton's? (Without doing a wiki on it) |
As far as the Clinton Admin., I am thinking (?) McCarty and Leon Paneta, with G. Stephanopoulos nearby during the first administration. And Andrew Card served W. Bush, no?
Personally, I would love to see Powell back at State. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Jandar wrote: |
That's why I thought Chief of Staff would be the place for him. His understanding for how Washington works, his experience at NSA and State, his ties in the Military, how could yuou leave him out.
The Chief of Staff position gives him all the access the ability to help and guide without any real public visibility.
Think about who is(was) Bush's Chief of Staff, Clinton's?
(Without doing a wiki on it) |
Chief of Staff? I can't see it. Too inherently political a position for Powell to accept. Not the same thing at all as Cohen as SecDef.
SecState? Again? Only if Powell feels some great need to redeem himself from the tarnishing his reputation got for his UN speech, and to hear him talk about it on MTP, he doesn't seem to feel that need.
My take is that Obama is talking up a position for Powell in his administration in order to maximize the influence of the endorsement with undecided voters. I'd guess that Powell is fine with that, but I'd also guess that they've already decided that the role he'll play is that amorphous one of "senior advisor."
I haven't looked too hard at this thread, so forgive me if this point has already been hashed out, but have we talked about the inherent racism in Limbaugh and Buchanan's assertions that this endorsement is just one brother sticking up for another, that the endorsement itself is racist? (On the basis, presumably, that Powell mentioned afterward that he thought the election of an African-American would be "electrifying.")
Well, if Powell is guilty on those grounds, so am I. I chose Obama as my candidate based on the fact that he and I see eye to eye on about 90 percent of the issues I find important. BUT, above and beyond that, I am indeed thrilled at the idea that this country may very well elect a black man to the presidency. And believe you me, if the black man in question were Alan Keyes, I'd be voting for the most white-bread liberal candidate any party cared to field.
Come election day, if Obama wins, I'm going to want to stand up on a chair and call to the heavens, "Martin! Martin, can you hear me? Look, look what the f*ck Americans just did? We elected the best candidate, and we didn't care that he's black!" In short, I am voting for him because he's the best hope for the country, and I am elated that he happens to be black precisely because of the statement that makes about how far we as a nation have come from the 3/5 compromise.
He's the right man for the right time, and ohmygod, isn't he just black, or black and white, or something like that? |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Personally, I would love to see Powell back at State. |
Me, too, but I don't think he'll do it, sadly. I think he has/had the right temperament, perspective, experience and backbone. I hope he would accept the post, but I just don't see him agreeing to it. I hope I'm wrong. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Beyond the evening news showing Powell walking in and out of the White House a lot during moments of crisis, you won't see or hear much of him. From the sounds of things, he hasn't been advising Obama so far and therefore won't be tagged with any official position. Chief of Staff is way too much of a demotion for him. Some kind of senior advisor, a special envoy in a particular crisis...that kind of thing is what he will do. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Adventurer wrote:
| Quote: |
| I think you should get off your high horse when judging a man who risked his life in combat in Vietnam. |
Respectfully, Adventuerer, I don't think that Powell's service in Vietnam should make him automatically exempt from criticism when he chooses to get involved in politics. I think he can be critiqued like any other player in the game. |
My high horse? This so-called "Vietnam warrior" lied to the American and world public about the presence of WMDs in Iraq and the rationale for invading that country. This so-called "warrior" is directly implicated in the deaths of over 4,000 US soldiers. Indeed, the fact that he was respected by a large number of Americans add a veneer of respectability and plausibility to the lie. How many fewer people would have believed Bush's nonsense about Iraq if Powell hadn't added his name and his reputation to it?
People liked (note my use of the past tense) him because he was in the military, and black. Kids liked him because before he got grey, he looked like a big teddy bear.
He's never had the guts or the balls to run for office himself -- he said so himself in 1996, when he said he didn't have "the fire in the belly" for the job. -- and then he goes and stabs his own party in the back when Obama has a 14-point margin in the polls and the election is only days away. Some trooper. Some team player.
Where has he been for the last 8 months, when McCain could have used his support -- and he could have influenced the McCain campaign to not be so negative? Imagine what that would have done for the Republican ticket if he had offered to be a candidate for VP?
He says that a black President "would be electrifying...". Who cares? All the white people in the US who are going to vote for Obama got way past that months ago. They're voting for the guy because they think he can do the best job to fix the economy. "A black president? We're already there", they're thinking.
Powell is endorsing Obama now because he's hoping everyone will forget all about WMDs and Iraq, and he's looking to weasel his way back into a position of influence.
He's the moral equivalent of a urinary tract infection. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| My take is that Obama is talking up a position for Powell in his administration in order to maximize the influence of the endorsement with undecided voters. I'd guess that Powell is fine with that, but I'd also guess that they've already decided that the role he'll play is that amorphous one of "senior advisor." |
Bingo. The guy stinks to high heaven...and Obama is a smart guy and he knows it. He'll make nice noises at/about Powell to help his campaign, but I'll bet anybody here $20 bucks Obama doesn't let him anywhere near a position where he'd have real power or the ability to damage anything. Obama is too smart for that.  |
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