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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| thiophene wrote: |
It's too bad America's ego is so hurt. They can't swallow the fac that they don't have their hands in Iranian pockets. A war in Iran would be illegal, immoral, and catostrophic. Sorry USA/Israel, you can't always get what you want, the world has a say too. There is no good reasn to attack Iran that isn't backed by very very greedy people. Once the greed stops, we can all move towards peace.
note: I don't think other powerful nations aren't to blame for Iran's active right to self defense AND sovereignty, but there is only 1 evil empire and its greedy little sister wanting to kill innocent civilians for greed...and are thus the only ones worth mentioning.
note2: Stating the obvious, but I can be against a war in Iran and disagree with Iranian politics.
Stop hating and start loving people! |
When Iran targets US forces in other countries how is that Iran's self defense and sovereighty?
The US ought to match Iran's game changer this way.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/03/12/INGS6HID5A1.DTL
Iran engaging in "self defense and protecting its sovereighty"
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July 13, 1991
Japanese Translator of Rushdie Book Found Slain
By STEVEN R. WEISMAN
OKYO, July 12 -- The Japanese translator of "The Satanic Verses," by Salman Rushdie, was found slain today at a university northeast of Tokyo.
The translator, Hitoshi Igarashi, 44 years old, was an assistant professor of comparative culture who reportedly studied in Iran in the 1970's. The police said he was stabbed several times on Thursday night and left in the hallway outside his office at Tsukuba University.
It is the second time this month that someone involved with the production of the novel by Mr. Rushdie, the Indian-born author condemned to death by the Iranian authorities two years ago, has been assaulted. On July 3, Ettore Capriolo, 61, the Italian translator of "The Satanic Verses," was stabbed in his apartment in Milan... |
http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-translator.html |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Hasn't Iran got fairly strong ties with Russian and China though? I dont think invading them would be a very good idea. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| rusty1983 wrote: |
| Hasn't Iran got fairly strong ties with Russian and China though? I dont think invading them would be a very good idea. |
The US ought to try to never to get involved in a land war again.
"Boots on the ground" is the least advantagous version of war for the US. |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Obama isn't going to start a WAR on PAKISTAN. |
| Quote: |
| On Aug. 3, 2007, speaking at Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School of the International School for Scholars, BO called for a US attack on Pakistan |
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ReeseDog

Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: Classified
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Obama isn't going to start a WAR on PAKISTAN. |
| Quote: |
| On Aug. 3, 2007, speaking at Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School of the International School for Scholars, BO called for a US attack on Pakistan |
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Any non-retaliatory attack anywhere at all from this point on would be a mistake, with the possible exceptions of attacks on an aggressive, nuclear-armed Iran or on Canada (which is just generally pissy and agressive in a very non-threatening way). Iran just makes sense, and Canada would just be good practice and would be over in a couple of hours. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Location: On your computer screen.
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ReeseDog wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Obama isn't going to start a WAR on PAKISTAN. |
| Quote: |
| On Aug. 3, 2007, speaking at Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School of the International School for Scholars, BO called for a US attack on Pakistan |
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Any non-retaliatory attack anywhere at all from this point on would be a mistake, with the possible exceptions of attacks on an aggressive, nuclear-armed Iran or on Canada (which is just generally pissy and agressive in a very non-threatening way). Iran just makes sense, and Canada would just be good practice and would be over in a couple of hours. |
Finally someone talking some sense on this forum! Canada could be renamed Greater Alaska and Palin could be appointed as the Overlord/Head Moose Hunter. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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October 19, 2008
Documents Say Iran Aids Militias From Iraq
By MARK MAZZETTI
WASHINGTON � They wake before dawn, with time to exercise, eat and pray before the day�s first class in firing Kalashnikov rifles.
Over the next eight hours, they practice using bazookas or laying roadside bombs, with a break for lunch and mandatory religious instruction.
There is free time in the evening to watch television or play Ping-Pong.
Lights out at 11 p.m.
Such is a typical day at a dusty military base outside Tehran, where for the past several years members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Quds Force and Lebanese Hezbollah operatives have trained Iraqi Shiites to launch attacks against American forces in Iraq, according to accounts given to American interrogators by captured Iraqi fighters.
American officials have long cited Iranian training and weapons as reasons for the lethality of attacks by Shiite fighters in Iraq. Iranian officials deny that such training takes place.
Now, more than 80 pages of newly declassified intelligence documents for the first time describe in detail an elaborate network used by Iraqis to gain entry into Iran and train under Iranian supervision. They offer the most comprehensive account to date to support American claims about Iranian efforts to build a proxy force in Iraq. Those claims have become highly politicized, with Bush administration critics charging that accounts of Iranian involvement have been exaggerated.
The prisoners� accounts cannot be independently verified. Yet the detainees gave strikingly similar details about training compounds in Iran, a clandestine network of safe houses in Iran and Iraq they used to reach the camps and intra-Shiite tensions at the camps between the Arab Iraqis and their Persian Iranian trainers.
Although attacks on Americans by Shiite militias have greatly decreased this year, military and intelligence officials said there was evidence that the militias, sometimes referred to as �special groups,� were now returning to Iraq to disrupt coming elections and intimidate residents. Maj. Gen. Jeffery W. Hammond, the commander of American forces in Baghdad, said recently that he believed that some militia fighters had returned to the capital in recent weeks.
The documents, compiled by the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point, are a collection of interrogation reports based on accounts of more than two dozen Shiite fighters captured in Iraq in 2007 and 2008. (The documents are available online at ctc.usma.edu/Iran_Iraq.asp.) The center is a research organization that compiles and analyzes intelligence documents related to Al Qaeda, Iraq, Iran and other topics.
The documents portray an Iranian strategy to use Iraqi Shiites as surrogates, in part to avoid the risk of Iranians being captured in Iraq. In one of the intelligence reports, a prisoner tells his captors that �Iran does not want to fight a direct war� with American forces in Iraq because Tehran worries that the United States would destroy Iran.
American intelligence officials say they believe that since a handful of Iranian Revolutionary Guard operatives were captured in Baghdad in 2006, Iran shifted its strategy to bringing small groups of Iraqis into Iran. The Iraqis are then sent back to their country to train larger cadres of Shiite militants.
One senior American intelligence official said there were indications that the training programs in Iran might have significantly expanded this year to accommodate the scores of Iraqi militia fighters who fled Iraq during the Iraqi military�s campaigns in Basra and Baghdad.
Brian Fishman, director of research at the Combating Terrorism Center and a co-author of a new study about Iran�s political and military influence in Iraq, said that even though Iran was not in direct command of militia groups in Iraq, the training was one of the means at Iran�s disposal to increase or decrease its influence in Iraq at will.
�Having the militia allies is a hedge,� he said. �If things turn against Iran politically, it gives them a lever to pull.�
American officials say it is still murky just how much of a direct role senior Iranian officials take in the training, although they say they believe that it takes place with at least the tacit approval of elements of Iran�s government. The documents do not provide any direct evidence of senior Iranian government officials overseeing the training.
The new Iran study, written by Mr. Fishman and Col. Joseph H. Felter, concludes that Iran aims to attack American troops in Iraq in part to show off its own abilities and in part to �demonstrate a credible deterrent against a U.S. strike on Iran�s nuclear facilities.�
The captives gave detailed descriptions of daily routines in the Iranian camps, from the intensity of weapons training to the more mundane complaints of military life. One of the captured Iraqis described a mini-revolt among the trainees because they had not been issued socks to wear with their military boots.
The documents also reveal deep ethnic fissures between Iranian and Iraqi Shiites. The Iraqis complained that their Iranian trainers did not show them the proper respect and that they made disparaging remarks about Moktada al-Sadr, the Iraqi Shiite cleric who has led an anti-American resistance movement in Iraq.
�Iraqi Shia are superior to Iranians because Iraqi Shia are moral, good, compassionate and emotionally sensitive,� one detainee said. �Iranians are not moral, are not sensitive and believe they are superior to everyone.�
By contrast, the Iraqis said they tended to forge closer bonds to the Lebanese Hezbollah fighters, Arabs who share a common language with the Iraqis.
After they had been selected for training in Iran, some of the trainees told their families they were going to the Iraqi city of Najaf to help guard the holy Shiite shrines there. Actually, the trainees usually made their way to Amara, a town in eastern Iraq not far from the Iranian border. There, they met their contact person at a local garage, where they were given small sums of money and stowed in safe houses around the city.
After a day or two, those with passports were driven by bus or taxi over the Iranian border to cities in western Iran like Ahvaz or Kermanshah. One detainee reported that the Iranian training was usually scheduled around major Shiite holidays, when large numbers of pilgrims cross the border and there is a better chance that the movement of the fighters will go unnoticed.
Those without passports were usually driven at night to marshlands, where they boarded rowboats to be ferried over the border and picked up by a waiting vehicle.
After spending a night in Ahvaz or Kermanshah, the trainees were brought to a local airport and flown to Tehran, where they were picked up and driven to a military base hours outside the city. Several of the detainees identified the camp as the Sayid al-Shahada military base.
Once at the base, trainees were issued a �tracksuit, tennis shoes, towel, and military food,� one of the prisoners reported.
�The refrigerator was filled with a lot of food and fruit,� he said.
They spent the next month training to fire small-caliber firearms, mortars and antiaircraft weapons, and learning how to carry out ambushes. They took classes in camouflage and daily religious instruction.
Some trainees participated in a special �engineer course� that trained militants how to lay roadside bombs. But only �smart� trainees were allowed to take part in the engineer training, according to one captive who said he was deemed not intelligent enough for this specialized training.
�If you are not smart, no one will waste the time and expenses to send you to Iran to train to be an engineer because you will fail,� says one of the interrogation reports. �Detainee did not care about engineer training and did not want to come back to Iran because their training was a waste of time and detainee had to leave his family for nothing.�
Other prisoners shared this dim view of the training, telling American interrogators that a separate training course run by Hezbollah operatives in Lebanon was far superior to the training in Iran.
To get to the training course in Lebanon, the detainees report, the Iraqis were taken by bus to an airport in Iran, where they then flew to Damascus, Syria, and were picked up and driven to the Lebanese border. Once in Lebanon, they said, they participated in several more weeks of training, led by Hezbollah operatives, in �weapons inventory control,� �project planning� and communications.
Those Iraqi trainees who did not go on to Lebanon had time for sightseeing during their remaining days in Iran, they reported. Some went to Tehran to visit religious shrines around the capital city. Others traveled to the Iranian city of Mashhad to shop, visit the tourist gardens or go to the zoo.
Stephen Farrell contributed reporting from Baghdad.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/world/middleeast/19intel.html?partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print |
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RJjr

Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Location: Turning on a Lamp
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| It doesn't matter, Obama's not going to win KY. |
That is because Kentucky, as you know, "is not ready" for an African-American president; it is a racist place, dominated by hyperreligious fanatics who chant "USA! USA!" even while asleep.  |
I've been to Lexington, KY a few times and you would not believe some of the stuff that comes out of people's mouths there. It's the same way in middle Tennessee. I was at a University of Tennessee versus University of Kentucky football game in Lexington, KY in 1999 and their new basketball coach had just won a National Championship in his first season. The Kentucky folks were describing him with the "n-word" and even winning a National Championship still wasn't good enough for the people in Kentucky and he eventually had to leave and go coach up in Minnesota.
Rex Chapman, from Owensboro, Kentucky, a former student-athlete at the University of Kentucky has said the following about Kentucky.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2061773
"You know, I grew up in a place (Owensboro, KY) where racism is an epidemic. I'm not talking about 20 years ago. I'm talking to this day."
"I ended up going to [the University of] Kentucky, and on the one hand, I was the Great White Hope and had 24,000 people cheering for me every day and every night," Chapman said. "Off the court, then I'd hear the whispers that I was a n----- lover. It was just asinine and ugly. That was part of the reason I left school early."
"It's the climate of how things were," he was quoted as saying. "People were bothered by the fact that sometimes I dated black girls. Most preferred that I keep it confidential and hide it.
"I was being asked to lead a lifestyle that was absolutely wrong, simply for the fact that some people didn't like that I dated somebody of a different race," Chapman told the paper. "I mean, what is that? Is that America?"
"I won't name names, but I can think of at least a half-dozen times or more that somebody with the university asked that it stop or to be sure that it was kept inconspicuous," he said.
"Well, I guess, what I'm saying, you know we live down here in the Bible Belt. I'm just saying be careful." |
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John Henry
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Yeah, Obama doesn't know much about the economy, either. But he has a calming temperment. Jeez. It doesn't matter, Obama's not going to win KY. |
Yeah, I'm sure if he knew more about the economy he'd win over those Kentuckians. |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Location: Jeolla province
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: Re: If John McCain was president which country would he inva |
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| TopalovVeselin wrote: |
| John McCain is old and I'm afraid he would have a serious "mental lapse" due to his current age. If that were the case, he would probably invade North Korea or Iran first. What are your thoughts? |
I think question should be "which country John McCain WON'T attack?".
For 2 weeks in September he was beefing on Spain, a freakin' NATO ally!
What the hell did Spain ever did to him?
He wanted to annihilate the Norks, fight Saddam, finish the job in Vietnam (prior to the trade agreement), continue the War on Iraq, reignite the Cold War, probably send more troops to Columbia, Bolivia, and pick new fights with Cuba, Nigeria, Iran, Sudan, Niger (re: Yellowcake), Iceland (?), Mexico, Vermont (??), Compton/Oakland/Detroit/Baltimore (said he wanted to 'surge' into the hood), Wall St., just so long as people are dying and war profiteers are making money.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-klein/war-president-mccain_b_114768.html |
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The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Chavez also counts on many cheerleaders and defenders on this messageboard. |
This is amazing. I had no idea Mon Frere Hugo even knew this website existed. The man is wiser than many of us ever dreamed. |
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seosan08

Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Location: Korea
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Canada!! |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Next to a River
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| A war in Iran would be illegal, immoral, and catostrophic. |
Just how do you have a legal war?
Do you wait until you have been attacked? How do you determine what is an attack? Who determines whether your response is legal?
I am of the mind of make love not war, but if you are fighting one, then win. Thats the only way history has proven what is legal, that you are the one standing to write the results, so how do you have a legal war? |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
| A war in Iran would be illegal, immoral, and catostrophic. |
Just how do you have a legal war?
Do you wait until you have been attacked? How do you determine what is an attack? Who determines whether your response is legal?
I am of the mind of make love not war, but if you are fighting one, then win. Thats the only way history has proven what is legal, that you are the one standing to write the results, so how do you have a legal war? |
In the US, Congress declares it. |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
| A war in Iran would be illegal, immoral, and catostrophic. |
Just how do you have a legal war?
Do you wait until you have been attacked? How do you determine what is an attack? Who determines whether your response is legal?
I am of the mind of make love not war, but if you are fighting one, then win. Thats the only way history has proven what is legal, that you are the one standing to write the results, so how do you have a legal war? |
A legal war would be one where the UN; after exhausting all other possibilities, decided that the only course of action was to go to war.
After the second world war the UN was established to try and stop further needless loss of life.
What Bush did was sound out countries in the UN; get a negative, and then go to war anyway. Hence, his wars have been illegal. Therefore, he is a war criminal. |
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