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| Would you teach EFL in Saudi Arabia? |
| Yes |
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54% |
[ 20 ] |
| No |
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45% |
[ 17 ] |
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| Total Votes : 37 |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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 Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: Would you teach EFL in Saudi Arabia? |
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Would you?
Some things about TEFL in Saudi:
* high tax-free salaries
* free apartment but seemingly much nicer than Korean shoeboxes, free airfare, no utilities other than long-distance phone calls
* generally need qualified teacher status or MA (and 5 years experience) but there are positions for people with CELTA
* you only teach your own sex
* difficult for women to find jobs unless part of a couple |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose that would depend mostly on my quality of life living there. I mean, besides the apt, salary, etc.
I'd have to give up my swing dancing hobby (none there, and it seems like it would be a hard place to start a scene), and I wouldn't really want to give up the dancing. I don't teach only because of money (not even one of my main reasons), but things like meeting friends, how nice the people there are, things to do... those would all affect my decision.
My answer would be a no for right now, but you never know in the future. I definitely couldn't decide just based on the info that you posted, though. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| Justin Hale, you want to go from the land of mini-skirts and high heels to the land of burkas? |
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soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Justin Hale, you want to go from the land of mini-skirts and high heels to the land of burkas? |
If you are a loner/highly independent person, I think Saudi ESL is a good investment financially, but I can see how physically + emotionally it would take a toll on a person who is accustomed to western lifestyle. |
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head-in-the-clouds
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: London for now
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| I would rather have my eyes taken out. |
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seoulteacher
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| soviet_man wrote: |
| If you are a loner/highly independent person, I think Saudi ESL is a good investment financially, but I can see how physically + emotionally it would take a toll on a person who is accustomed to western lifestyle. |
Soviet_man, I agree. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) could also well suit couples with young children who don't need/want the bar scene as much (KSA has no bars or nightclubs, or cinemas), especially if more quickly meeting financial goals than elsewhere.
And while M/Eastern employers normally provide quite good accommodation (ie. much better than in Korea, and I speak from personal experience in that least-conservative of M/Eastern countries, the UAE), I once received an offer from a KSA uni that included accommodation that was smaller than what (a 1-room uni dorm unit) I was then finding a bit cramped in Seoul! So, do your due diligence: don't assume conditions, but check the details of any offer.
But here's a tip to the wise, and I'm thinking especially of singles, young or otherwise: finding a job in the Eastern Provinces of KSA (ie. in cities on the Arabian/Persian Gulf), and in particular, within driving distance of Bahrein, would allow weekend getaways to Bahrein with its bars & nightclubs (with alcohol, which to me speaks of a more-relaxed/moderate lifestyle than KSA, even if one is not a drinker), and cinemas.
Check it out via Google Maps, you want employers anywhere from Al Jubayl (aka Jubail) to Al Khubar (Khobar), and especially if you can swing a gig with a direct hire at Aramaco in Ad Dammam, with its large & comfortable campus and high wages: http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=map+saudi+arabia&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=image
Or at such as King Faisal University of Petroleum & Mines (KFUPM) in Dhahran ( http://www.kfupm.edu.sa/kfupm/about/gmap.asp ..."The island of Bahrain, an independent emirate some 35 kilometers from the Saudi coastline, can be seen from the Jebel during clear weather").
I've recently thought again of applying to teach ESL in KSA, particularly for its mix of savings potential and quiet, and for the long term. And, while KSA can offer such positives as camping in the desert and at-home entertaining (with other non-Saudis), methinks it'd best be near to Bahrein and its getaways!
And don't forget a good source of info on conditions for expat teachers in Saudi, and about named employers: Daveseslcafe's Saudi discussion boards: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewforum.php?f=29&sid=3bb5150fc241d0bda40bff6f774dd20a
PS:
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| I would rather have my eyes taken out. |
I don't know about eyes, but don't go to Saudi and steal: they're quite proficient at removing limbs. But you have a point, working in Saudi certainly has its challenges. For me, finding a place of (Christian) worship would top such a list (and yes, apparently there are such places...just be aware that proselytizing is strictly haram (forbidden)). |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I would seriously consider it. I have 2 small children and can not countenance going to bars and restaurants much, even if I really wanted to. A nice quiet compound would do me nicely. I could save and have a very interesting cultural experience.
Secondly, I have quite a few Saudi friends of both genders, both here and over there (friends who have returned) and that would help a bit, I think. Some cities, areas are less repressive, and they can give me a lot of advice on where to live, what to do, etc etc.
I also know a few western women who have lived there, and they had positive things to say. For example, they liked not having to dress up nice when they went shopping. You can just throw a black cloth over your pajamas, and rush out and meet your friend in a high class cafe. That suits me. |
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cangel
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: |
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We have a new single male teaching at my school. He spent 2 years in Saudi and absolutely hated it. No way I would teach there. Recently a teacher was sentenced to 40 months in prison and 750 lashes because he "discussed religion and praised Jews." Hard not to be ethnocentric in these idiotic situations.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3169812,00.html |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:45 am Post subject: Re: Would you teach EFL in Saudi Arabia? |
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| Justin Hale wrote: |
| * high tax-free salaries |
without a master's, a teaching certification or at a CELTA or experience in the region already, the average salaries aren't that much more than in Korea if you've got a couple of years experience here
| Quote: |
| * free apartment but seemingly much nicer than Korean shoeboxes, free airfare, no utilities other than long-distance phone calls |
i have a spacious two bedroom place courtesy of my hagwon, the local middle school waygook has a three-bedroom place all to himself and a bud of mine in a nearby town has an entire house to himself. If SPACE is a priority, there are plenty of jobs to choose from and get yourself a spacious place. It depends on your priorities and research skills in the job hunting phase. It is not mere luck. I turned down several studio apart jobs and would never take an officetel as the big city places call them
| Quote: |
| * generally need qualified teacher status or MA (and 5 years experience) but there are positions for people with CELTA |
true, that may be you and I but it ain't most ESlers in Korea and the pay is adjusted accordingly so many of the high salaries in the middle east are beyond us CELTA folk unless - indeed - luck and research uncovers a gem
| Quote: |
| * you only teach your own sex |
 the very definition of hell... the best classes are half and half in my experience
| Quote: |
| * difficult for women to find jobs unless part of a couple |
some jobs advertise for women at women's colleges... but otherwise your point stands, not many single western women for you to date as a western guy. and the locals will be even less accepting of you stooping their women than koreans are
all that sand with no beach to swim  all the rules and laws to follow and harsh police penalties for doing the wrong thing
no thanks  i much prefer the laid back law enforcement and FREE COUNTRY here, where you could drink with a buddy anywhere you dang please, in the park on a nice warm evening, outside a convenience store, whathaveyou, where you don't have to live in compounds (though you Bundang folk and your apartment suburbs are pretty much doing the same thing). and if you think the cost of living is high in korea, then you got another thing coming there from what i've heard... |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Hell no. I like teaching the opposite sex, I like drinking, I like sex (and I'm not married) and I live personal freedom.
If it's for financial necessity, I'd rather take one of those 6 month contracts in a "green zone" in Iraq. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
Yes, I would seriously consider it. I have 2 small children and can not countenance going to bars and restaurants much, even if I really wanted to. A nice quiet compound would do me nicely. I could save and have a very interesting cultural experience.
Secondly, I have quite a few Saudi friends of both genders, both here and over there (friends who have returned) and that would help a bit, I think. Some cities, areas are less repressive, and they can give me a lot of advice on where to live, what to do, etc etc.
I also know a few western women who have lived there, and they had positive things to say. For example, they liked not having to dress up nice when they went shopping. You can just throw a black cloth over your pajamas, and rush out and meet your friend in a high class cafe. That suits me. |
Interesting Cultural experiences
Public Beheading
Stoning. |
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Gamecock
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| It seems like salaries have really fallen off in Saudi compared to what it was a few years ago. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| Justin Hale wrote: |
| * high tax-free salaries |
without a master's, a teaching certification or at a CELTA or experience in the region already, the average salaries aren't that much more than in Korea if you've got a couple of years experience here |
But it is precisely people with Masters, certification, CELTA (plus experience) that I alluded specifically to. It seems extremely pointless to tell us that people without those qualifications don�t qualify for those benefits. The people qualified can expect $3-$5,000 per month as opposed to the $1,600-$2,000 currently on offer in Korea (2.5m KRW is less than $2,000) � simply not serious. For anyone less qualified or experienced, Saudi has few if any opportunities, but for the folks who fit my original description, it's proper money.
| VanIslander wrote: |
| i have a spacious two bedroom place courtesy of my hagwon, the local middle school waygook has a three-bedroom place all to himself and a bud of mine in a nearby town has an entire house to himself. If SPACE is a priority, there are plenty of jobs to choose from and get yourself a spacious place. It depends on your priorities and research skills in the job hunting phase. It is not mere luck. I turned down several studio apart jobs and would never take an officetel as the big city places call them |
Who cares where you live? I sure as hell don't. In any case, EFL folks in Korea with spacious apartments are the exception and not the norm; in Saudi it's the reverse. A measly couple of examples from your life are of no significance at all.
| VanIslander wrote: |
| the very definition of hell... |
Sorry to hear that�s your attitude. I've taught male-only classes many times and got along perfectly. I would prefer it if there were both sexes present, absolutely, but to anyone disgusted by the prospect of teaching only members of their own sex, I say go and take a lie down until you feel a little better.
| VanIslander wrote: |
| and the locals will be even less accepting of you stooping their women than koreans are |
And there we all were under the curious delusion that TEFL in Saudi is all nightclubs and promiscuous sex.
| VI wrote: |
| no thanks i much prefer the laid back law enforcement and FREE COUNTRY here, where you could drink with a buddy anywhere you dang please, in the park on a nice warm evening, outside a convenience store, whathaveyou, where you don't have to live in compounds (though you Bundang folk and your apartment suburbs are pretty much doing the same thing). and if you think the cost of living is high in korea, then you got another thing coming there from what i've heard... |
I actually find the lack of alcohol a complete plus. Wouldn�t do you any harm to abstain by the sounds of that post. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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^ So in other words justin Hale, you are a douche bag!
Seriously though, let's keep it real here bro. That post was a surefire man-period |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I suppose I would, but I'm not nearly qualified. |
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