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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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 Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| the voters for both candidates stay home. |
Were the Afromericans in Ohio told that they needn't attend the voting booths in 04? Was it taken for granted that they wouldn't turn up?
Or, do you mean that their votes weren't counted. Or, was it that the machines recognised the sudden swing to Democrat so immediately reversed any vote cast and or switched it to the Republican side... ?
I don't get what you mean. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| Cheonmunka wrote: |
| Quote: |
| the voters for both candidates stay home. |
Were the Afromericans in Ohio told that they needn't attend the voting booths in 04? Was it taken for granted that they wouldn't turn up?
Or, do you mean that their votes weren't counted. Or, was it that the machines recognised the sudden swing to Democrat so immediately reversed any vote cast and or switched it to the Republican side... ?
I don't get what you mean. |
Let's say you live in a state or DC where you know the Presidential vote will be 70/30 or so. There is no way in hell that your vote will make a difference. The voting will only determine who will get the electoral votes and that is a fixed number and that outcome is guaranteed. So, the voters from both parties can stay home. The parties and candidates themselves do not need to encourage voting either. They save their time and energy. They stay home and don't campaign or advertise. Your vote for President will not count in any case. Millions of voters find themselves in just this situation in every election and millions of voters stay home from both major parties. It is a fact. And, therefore, we have no idea what the popular vote would have been in any election.
This is not the case in those few states that are competitive. These battleground states are fought over and voting is encouraged by each candidate and party for a list of identified supporters. This is called GOTV.
However, the Democrats and Republicans are both famous for dirty tricks to prevent those who might support the opposition from voting. In fact, one of my friends decades ago had been a professional dirty tricks trainer for the Democrats. He and some other Democrat leaders held training sessions for activists in D party strongholds in methods of preventing Republicans from voting, enabling multiple voting by party stalwarts, and rejecting opposition votes during counting. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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In Australia they have mandatory or 'compulsory' voting (failure to vote results in a small fine) and it doesn't seem to have harmed their country too much. They regularly get more than 90% of people voting and their politicians seem just as reasonable/unreasonable as any other country. I think this something all countries should consider.
http://www.slate.com/id/2108832/ |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
In Australia they have mandatory or 'compulsory' voting (failure to vote results in a small fine) and it doesn't seem to have harmed their country too much. They regularly get more than 90% of people voting and their politicians seem just as reasonable/unreasonable as any other country. I think this something all countries should consider.
http://www.slate.com/id/2108832/ |
We don't need any more laws criminalizing what ought to be a matter of individual free choice.
Not voting is a valid political expression and a right. This is especially true in countries like the US that do NOT have truly free elections. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Don't vote? Don't bitch.
Thats my motto.
Anyone who doesn't vote has no right to complain about the government. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Don't vote? Don't bitch.
Thats my motto.
Anyone who doesn't vote has no right to complain about the government. |
Of course you have a right to complain. In the US in many states and districts there is only one candidate on the ballot and write in votes are illegal. There is, in fact, no way provided to write in a vote. All you can do by voting is to confirm the already selected candidate. The government does not allow alternative candidates to run, so you have no choice. Not voting becomes a valid form of protest:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=136893 |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| In his typical tunnel vision way of looking at things, a certain poster is ignoring that during a presidential election, there are a whole host of other offices on the ballot...your representative in Congress, one of your senators in 2 elections out of three, candidates for governor and members of your state legislature, city government, the school board...judgeships and the county sheriff. If someone stays home because his presidential candidate isn't expected to win, he just doesn't care about government in general. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| In his typical tunnel vision way of looking at things, a certain poster is ignoring that during a presidential election, there are a whole host of other offices on the ballot...your representative in Congress, one of your senators in 2 elections out of three, candidates for governor and members of your state legislature, city government, the school board...judgeships and the county sheriff. If someone stays home because his presidential candidate isn't expected to win, he just doesn't care about government in general. |
Yata, you need to look at how elections are in some of the other States besides Iowa. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Why?
Are you saying that only people in Iowa care who is elected to the wide variety of other offices during a presidential election? If true, those people need a reality check. The people who fill those other offices have a big impact on people's lives and at least the good people of the great and sovereign (not!) state of Iowa care who they are. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Why?
Are you saying that only people in Iowa care who is elected to the wide variety of other offices during a presidential election? If true, those people need a reality check. The people who fill those other offices have a big impact on people's lives and at least the good people of the great and sovereign (not!) state of Iowa care who they are. |
No. I'm saying that there are places in the US where there are no choices on the ballot for any significant office and literally no reason to bother to vote due to the restrictive ballot access laws and that this is much worse than you would believe if you are limited in experience to only states like Iowa.
You could live in one of the states where you have only one candidate for US House, and one for State Rep and no State Senate seat or US Senate seat up this year, your State is not a swing state for President and the local offices are filled in the spring, write-ins are not allowed, so there is no reason at all to vote. |
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