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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: 90% of the population with health coverage within two years |
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In China:
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Now China�s government has unveiled a controversial plan to achieve universal care that would both increase health-care funding and control prices.
As this morning�s WSJ explains, the proposed plan would be quite a shift for China. The draft plan�s overall goal is to cover 90% of the population within two years and achieve universal care by 2020. It aims to return to non-profit national health care, an idea that was largely abandoned in the country 1980s.
This all stands in contrast to China�s current system, which provides little government funding to government hospitals and requires patients to pay heavy out-of-pocket expenses. The WSJ notes that out-of-pocket payments made up more than 60% of health spending in China at the end of the 1990s.
The plan � drafted in consultation with groups including the World Health Organization, the World Bank, consultant McKinsey & Co. and a few Chinese university-based public health experts � requires all revenue raised by public hospitals to be funneled to the state. The government also aims to set pricing standards for medical services. |
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122445443885248287.html
An increase in domestic consumption... |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| If actually implemented, this will sew the seeds of financial destruction for China and will achieve, in the end, what the student protesters couldn't in Tienanmen Square - the final collapse of the Chinese communist government. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Or they will build a relatively controlled and prosperous society like Singapore. Which is their goal. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: |
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From the article:
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| The plan doesn't address how the government would pay for its nationalization program if hospitals are restrained from earning more and tax collection mechanisms remain weak. |
Massive deficit spending will cause a quick collapse of the government. China does not have the ability to print the "reserve currency of the world" and survive for decades.
Socialism ALWAYS fails.
China's plan is a stupid idea whose time has passed. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Or they will build a relatively controlled and prosperous society like Singapore. Which is their goal. |
China isn't Singapore. Its a laudable goal but an incredibly facile timetable. I can guarantee you Zhou Zhongguo doesn't believe the CCP can pull this off in 2 years. Why should I? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Being a large Singapore'ish state is their goal. The Singaporean government does a great deal of consulting in China to help them achieve this.
But yes, they won't hit it in 2 years. Of course not. |
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sharkey
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| If actually implemented, this will sew the seeds of financial destruction for China and will achieve, in the end, what the student protesters couldn't in Tienanmen Square - the final collapse of the Chinese communist government. |
where are you from ? china can afford whatever it wants... youre an idiot for saying this |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
From the article:
| Quote: |
| The plan doesn't address how the government would pay for its nationalization program if hospitals are restrained from earning more and tax collection mechanisms remain weak. |
Massive deficit spending will cause a quick collapse of the government. China does not have the ability to print the "reserve currency of the world" and survive for decades.
Socialism ALWAYS fails.
China's plan is a stupid idea whose time has passed. |
A good mix of Socialism and Capitalism doesn't have to fail.
The Capitalism provides for the growth of the economy, where the Socialism creates equal opportunities.
What better combination is there? |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Buiding public highways and bridge my god that will drain al lthe resources, this kind of socialism cannot stand.
These things can work, Public Health, Public Schools, there certain things that are good forthe public at large and the cost should be shared by the public.
The public highways are an investment in commerce and business.
The public schools are an investment in our primary resource.
The public health care system is the maintenance cost of that same primary resource.
Healthy well educated people create a healthy and prosperous society. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Below we see the nonsense that is taught in government schools and this shows again how socialism fails. The people today are nearly all illiterate when it comes to math, accounting, finance, engineering, science ...
All that the public schools end up doing is creating a class of workers who are too stupid to understand what is really happening.
Of course, in a way, this is a success story. The intent of the Socialists when they nationalized the education system in the US was to create good socialists who would follow the government stupidly and unquestioningly. Literacy rates have fallen since the socialist public eduction system was created, but stupidity allows the government unlimited opportunities for growth.
| Jandar wrote: |
Buiding public highways and bridge my god that will drain al lthe resources, this kind of socialism cannot stand.
These things can work, Public Health, Public Schools, there certain things that are good forthe public at large and the cost should be shared by the public.
The public highways are an investment in commerce and business.
The public schools are an investment in our primary resource.
The public health care system is the maintenance cost of that same primary resource.
Healthy well educated people create a healthy and prosperous society. |
1. Public schools create stupid citizens who can barely read, don't understand that US elections are not free and that the problems we have are caused by the government. They create citizens who are incapable of understanding what I am writing here and who, if they had ANY KIND of real education, would already know the following:
2. Government built bridges and roads have caused a massive malinvestment in the infrastructure of the US to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars. We have too many roads, bridges, highways and cars and burn too much gasoline causing too much pollution all caused by socialism.
A free market would build integrated housing, education and working communities where people could walk, bike, take elevators and people movers first, followed by busses and subways, and with the more expensive and least efficient private automobile as the last trasportation alternative. We would have healthy integrated communites with green space, all services and needs conveniently located and minimized transportation needs.
The current socialist transportation system causes high transportation costs, high gasoline prices, increases the power of OPEC and the power of mideast dictators, and causes pollution, poverty and war around the world.
In transportation and energy alone, socialism is destroying the world.
But, this is a great socialist success story, of course, because all of those things lead to more power for the state.
3. Public health care leads to high costs, declining availability of health services, rationing, denial of service, the need for citizens to seek treatment abroad, and declining medical advancement.
Public health care has added more than $30 trillion to the total US national debt of now over $70 trillion today, in today's dollars. That is the discounted present value. The sum of the actual future amounts when the payments are actually made would be far higher - over $150 trillion.
4. [quote]Healthy well educated people create a healthy and prosperous society[/quote]....and can only be achieved by a free market unfettered by taxes on income, taxes on property, and government regulation of any kind.
And we are still not touching how:
5. Socialist fiat money has destroyed the dollar and all the other currencies around the globe, created recessions, the current bubble and the 1st great depression.
6. Social Security has destroyed financial savings and investment in the US and around the world leading us down the socialist path to a wasteful, consumerist society and preventing the creation of over 200 million permanent jobs around the world, and the concomitant alleviation of poverty, improvement in the health, education and well being of the peoples of the world, reduction in birth rates leading to even more improvements, and elimination of the pressure for war.
Socialism has failed.
Socialism always fails.
There are no exceptions anywhere.
If you think there are exceptions, it is because you haven't studied the facts. |
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sharkey
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: |
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[quote="ontheway"]Below we see the nonsense that is taught in government schools and this shows again how socialism fails. The people today are nearly all illiterate when it comes to math, accounting, finance, engineering, science ...
All that the public schools end up doing is creating a class of workers who are too stupid to understand what is really happening.
Of course, in a way, this is a success story. The intent of the Socialists when they nationalized the education system in the US was to create good socialists who would follow the government stupidly and unquestioningly. Literacy rates have fallen since the socialist public eduction system was created, but stupidity allows the government unlimited opportunities for growth.
| Jandar wrote: |
Buiding public highways and bridge my god that will drain al lthe resources, this kind of socialism cannot stand.
These things can work, Public Health, Public Schools, there certain things that are good forthe public at large and the cost should be shared by the public.
The public highways are an investment in commerce and business.
The public schools are an investment in our primary resource.
The public health care system is the maintenance cost of that same primary resource.
Healthy well educated people create a healthy and prosperous society. |
1. Public schools create stupid citizens who can barely read, don't understand that US elections are not free and that the problems we have are caused by the government. They create citizens who are incapable of understanding what I am writing here and who, if they had ANY KIND of real education, would already know the following:
2. Government built bridges and roads have caused a massive malinvestment in the infrastructure of the US to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars. We have too many roads, bridges, highways and cars and burn too much gasoline causing too much pollution all caused by socialism.
A free market would build integrated housing, education and working communities where people could walk, bike, take elevators and people movers first, followed by busses and subways, and with the more expensive and least efficient private automobile as the last trasportation alternative. We would have healthy integrated communites with green space, all services and needs conveniently located and minimized transportation needs.
The current socialist transportation system causes high transportation costs, high gasoline prices, increases the power of OPEC and the power of mideast dictators, and causes pollution, poverty and war around the world.
In transportation and energy alone, socialism is destroying the world.
But, this is a great socialist success story, of course, because all of those things lead to more power for the state.
3. Public health care leads to high costs, declining availability of health services, rationing, denial of service, the need for citizens to seek treatment abroad, and declining medical advancement.
Public health care has added more than $30 trillion to the total US national debt of now over $70 trillion today, in today's dollars. That is the discounted present value. The sum of the actual future amounts when the payments are actually made would be far higher - over $150 trillion.
4.
| Quote: |
Healthy well educated people create a healthy and prosperous society[/quote]....and can only be achieved by a free market unfettered by taxes on income, taxes on property, and government regulation of any kind.
And we are still not touching how:
5. Socialist fiat money has destroyed the dollar and all the other currencies around the globe, created recessions, the current bubble and the 1st great depression.
6. Social Security has destroyed financial savings and investment in the US and around the world leading us down the socialist path to a wasteful, consumerist society and preventing the creation of over 200 million permanent jobs around the world, and the concomitant alleviation of poverty, improvement in the health, education and well being of the peoples of the world, reduction in birth rates leading to even more improvements, and elimination of the pressure for war.
Socialism has failed.
Socialism always fails.
There are no exceptions anywhere.
If you think there are exceptions, it is because you haven't studied the facts. |
why dont you actually look at a country in europe that goes somewhat by the socialsist guidelines.. then you will find it does work and it thrives in nations like Scandinavia, germany and france ...
ppl dont give socialism or anything that resembles it a chance in usa because theyre scared of the red menace still .. plus theyre idiots |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| sharkey wrote: |
2. Government built bridges and roads have caused a massive malinvestment in the infrastructure of the US to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars. We have too many roads, bridges, highways and cars and burn too much gasoline causing too much pollution all caused by socialism.
A free market would build integrated housing, education and working communities where people could walk, bike, take elevators and people movers first, followed by busses and subways, and with the more expensive and least efficient private automobile as the last trasportation alternative. We would have healthy integrated communites with green space, all services and needs conveniently located and minimized transportation needs.
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I totally agree with this. The suburban era was a government creation post ww2. The cities we have in North America now, with very few exceptions, are suburban nightmares. Vapid, empty, without culture and human interaction. I cringe every time I hear some North American comment on their "nice quiet street".
The Federal Housing Administration gave low interest loans to newtowns being built on the edges of cities. These houses had to be "x" number of feet from each other, and the road. The blueprint of suburbia. The roads to supply suburbia were then/and built, expanded and expanded some more. Building capacity as growth was set, whereas new construction should have been an outcome of growth. Now we have totally inefficient cities that are hard to get goods to, hard to police, break down social harmony (every idiot locked up in their house, only interacting at Wal-Mart) and require huge daily transfers of wealth to Saudi etc.
This is likely the largest non-war misallocation of resources in modern human history. It is a disaster in every way.
This:
http://karlomleonor.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/suburbia.jpg
Should look like this:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/cosmomod/Rqw3VZqHWOI/AAAAAAAAAXc/Y1nb7huy15o/LAFrog+ThereIsVillage.jpg
And this topic reminds me of this article, which I agree with 101%:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/subprime |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
From the article:
| Quote: |
| The plan doesn't address how the government would pay for its nationalization program if hospitals are restrained from earning more and tax collection mechanisms remain weak. |
Massive deficit spending will cause a quick collapse of the government. China does not have the ability to print the "reserve currency of the world" and survive for decades.
Socialism ALWAYS fails.
China's plan is a stupid idea whose time has passed. |
Said with aplomb and alacrity - thank-you Joe the Plumber. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: |
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This was built by socialism: free highways, free roads, high income and property taxes along with intrest deductibility, subsidized energy consumption and waste, free trash collection, government schools, government bussing of students, RFD mail, National Electrification...
And that socialism is the explanation for why the well documented change in this article happened:
All of our current, major, economic and social problems are the result of socialism. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| why dont you actually look at a country in europe that goes somewhat by the socialsist guidelines.. then you will find it does work and it thrives in nations like Scandinavia, germany and france ... |
Economists have studied socialism in Europe and America and have concluded that socialism (high taxes, high spending, big government) has reduced the standard of living of nations like France, Germany, Sweeden, Denmark, the US and others by 90% or more over the last 100 years.
The reason that socialism still "thrives," that is, exists at all, is because voters are uneducated, due to the dominance of the socialist education system, and do not understand economics, are so illiterate that they cannot understand the posts that I write on this board (for example), and therefore they insist on electing leaders who promise them government benefits without knowing that they pay far more in taxes and lost income than what they get in government services. |
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