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Maud Kepz
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
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 Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| D.D. wrote: |
We are not as smart as the thing that creates us. Our arrogance of this fact creates many problems. Western medicine should only be used as a last resort.
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You best be trollin. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Yes, do read and learn:
http://drbenkim.com/articles-vaccine-risks.htm
You rant on and on about establishing "herd immunity". Interesting idea, but tell me, how is it possible to establish such a thing when the gov't scientists pick the wrong strains of flu to build their new vaccine around?
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/10/16/flu-shot.html?ref=rss
Every year, flu experts make an educated guess about which flu strains end up being the most common before deciding which ones to include in the vaccine the following year.
For 2007, flu experts chose the wrong ones, said Dr. Don Low, microbiologist in chief at Toronto's Mount Sinai Hospital.
So it's just a crap shoot as to whether they even got close this year as well.  |
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| D.D. wrote: |
| Most research is funded by the people who want to sell the drugs. |
That might have something to do with the fact that they're the ones who have the money.
Did you know that Viagra was a heart drug? No lie! See, their Phase 3 CT group figured out that it really didn't do what they were expecting...it's not really doing much to his heart but speeding it up a little, and that's kinda the opposite, but ya-hay!! Check this out! Give a healthy man the drug and you can hoist the mainsail on that yard-arm!
Similar thing happened with your evil pharmaceutical conspiracy and a lesser-known SSRI called Wellbutrin. This one actually got on the market before people came in and said "You know what, doc, I started on this thing and three days later I quit smoking!" And Big Pharma went "CHA-CHING!! - Zyban!"
You know what's not inherently healthy? Taking drugs. You know what *is* inherently unhealthy? Smoking. Polio touched the lives of everyone from Tiny Tim to the President of the United States. A guy named Jonas Salk got rid of that one. Polio. It like...ya know... just doesn't exist anymore.
Want me to throw some gasoline on your fire? Salk's initial research, and discoveries related to the flu vaccine were funded by... ...wait for it... The United States Army.
Edit: Wait... You anti-vaccine people...you're here in Sparkling, yes? Are you saying that you came to a country where everyone eats out of the same bowl and there's no soap in the bathrooms - without your Hep A and Hep B vaccines?? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Geez. An anonymous interview. I could write that page myself and just make it up too. And look at all those $40 bottles of natural cures he's selling on his site. I guess he's honest but those doctors who eliminated small pox aren't. Huh? They're just drug company shills.
| Quote: |
| You rant on and on about establishing "herd immunity". Interesting idea, but tell me, how is it possible to establish such a thing when the gov't scientists pick the wrong strains of flu to build their new vaccine around? |
I'm not sure why you ask. The article explains the complicated process of determining which strain will be most virulent. Sometimes they're wrong. You're perfect?
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| So it's just a crap shoot as to whether they even got close this year as well. |
False major premise fallacy. Why do you think it's a crap shoot? You think they just roll dice? No. Are all your choices crap shoots or do you sometimes make educated guesses? |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Posting a link from the Washington Times means you've lost the argument. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Right back at you:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/333/7576/1020
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12686092?dopt=Abstract
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Vaccine. 2003 May 1;21(16):1769-75.
Related Articles, Links
The efficacy, effectiveness and cost-effectiveness of inactivated influenza virus vaccines.
Nichol KL.
Influenza is a major cause of morbidity and mortality worldwide. Currently available inactivated influenza virus vaccines are safe and effective in preventing influenza. Substantial health benefits are seen across all age and risk groups. Studies assessing the economic benefits of vaccination suggest that vaccination is highly cost effective and in many cases cost saving among the elderly. Influenza vaccination has also been associated with significant economic benefits in younger adults and children. Additional health economic studies from developing countries and from tropical/subtropical regions will be vitally important for better understanding of the global burden of influenza and potential benefits of vaccination. |
But let me ask you. Is it your opinion that the Cochrane Reviews are authoritative and trust worthy? |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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It is my opinion (rightly or wrongly) that there are conflicting views on whether or not flu vaccines are effective and people should be aware of both sides of the issue.
I am in no position to judge whose studies are more "authoritive". I don't think it's right for people to be only shown 1 side and then told that
everyone is in agreement on it. |
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519forlife
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Just let the dumbass get his shots, yes the government loves you, drink the floride water take your shots, just watch T.V. the fundamentals of the economy are sound, go out and run up that credit card. Everything is fine, not need to worry they will take care of you. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| 519forlife wrote: |
| Just let the dumbass get his shots, yes the government loves you, drink the floride water take your shots, just watch T.V. the fundamentals of the economy are sound, go out and run up that credit card. Everything is fine, not need to worry they will take care of you. |
You've not said an intelligent thing yet. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
| I don't think it's right for people to be only shown 1 side and then told that everyone is in agreement on it. |
Who made that claim? Some people don't think relativity is correct either. But then you'll have to explain why our GPS devices only work because of it... |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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MM2 wrote:
I won't forget my flu shot. Everyone should get one, in fact.
Why would you say this, when US authorities only recommend certain people "should" get flu shots?
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/333/7574/912?ehom=&eaf
People for whom vaccination is recommended in the United States1
People aged 65 or more
Patients in institutions who have chronic medical conditions
Adults and children with chronic disorders of the cardiovascular and respiratory systems (including asthma but excluding hypertension)
Adults and children who have been treated in hospital in the preceding 12 months for a range of conditions (for example, diabetes or haemoglobinopathy) Adults and children with conditions that compromise respiratory function or handling of infected secretions Children aged 6 months to 18 years being treated with aspirin
Women who are pregnant during the influenza "season"
Children aged 6-59 months
Adults aged 50-64 years
Carers and household contacts (including children) of those in the above risk categories and of children aged 0-59 months
Healthcare workers |
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Someone please answer my question. I know my post got lost as the volume went up, but:
Did you really come here *without* your Hep A and Hep B vaccines? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
MM2 wrote:
I won't forget my flu shot. Everyone should get one, in fact.
Why would you say this, when US authorities only recommend certain people "should" get flu shots? |
No. Those are the people who should get priority. However, the point is the flu vaccine is not perfect. High risk people can get vaccinated and still get the flu. You can protect them by building herd immunity around them.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/355/24/2586 |
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