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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Palin 'going rogue', looking to 2012 |
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http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/25/mccain-aide-palin-going-rogue/
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html
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(CNN) -- With 10 days until Election Day, long-brewing tensions between GOP vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin and key aides to Sen. John McCain have become so intense, they are spilling out in public, sources say.
Several McCain advisers have suggested to CNN that they have become increasingly frustrated with what one aide described as Palin "going rogue."
A Palin associate, however, said the candidate is simply trying to "bust free" of what she believes was a damaging and mismanaged roll-out.
McCain sources say Palin has gone off-message several times, and they privately wonder whether the incidents were deliberate. They cited an instance in which she labeled robocalls -- recorded messages often used to attack a candidate's opponent -- "irritating" even as the campaign defended their use. Also, they pointed to her telling reporters she disagreed with the campaign's decision to pull out of Michigan.
A second McCain source says she appears to be looking out for herself more than the McCain campaign.
"She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this McCain adviser. "She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else.
"Also, she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember: Divas trust only unto themselves, as they see themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom."
A Palin associate defended her, saying that she is "not good at process questions" and that her comments on Michigan and the robocalls were answers to process questions.
Don't Miss
But this Palin source acknowledged that Palin is trying to take more control of her message, pointing to last week's impromptu news conference on a Colorado tarmac.
Tracey Schmitt, Palin's press secretary, was urgently called over after Palin wandered over to the press and started talking. Schmitt tried several times to end the unscheduled session.
With the presidential race in its final days and polls suggesting that McCain's chances of pulling out a win are growing slim, Palin may be looking after her own future.
"She's no longer playing for 2008; she's playing 2012," Democratic pollster Peter Hart said. "And the difficulty is, when she went on 'Saturday Night Live,' she became a reinforcement of her caricature. She never allowed herself to be vetted, and at the end of the day, voters turned against her both in terms of qualifications and personally." |
No relationships of trust with her own family? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| long-brewing tensions between GOP vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin and key aides to Sen. John McCain have become so intense, |
Word is, it isn't just with the aides there is tension between. McCain, too. Brian Williams indicated the tension between her and McCain was evident in the interview he did with them the other day.
What I don't quite understand is what party she 'plans' to lead in 2012. Conservative leadership has been jumping overboard for several weeks now and many have said it is largely due to her. She's entirely failed to attract significant support outside her wing of the party. I suppose she could head the Rump Republican Party, but why bother? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| What I don't quite understand is what party she 'plans' to lead in 2012. Conservative leadership has been jumping overboard for several weeks now and many have said it is largely due to her. She's entirely failed to attract significant support outside her wing of the party. I suppose she could head the Rump Republican Party, but why bother? |
If you're someone who STILL thinks that Palin was a good choice for veep, then you're obviously viewing reality from a very different standpoint than everyone else. Because anyone who's even remotely clued-in realizes that she's been an utter disaster for the Republicans.
So, if she runs for president, it would have to be as the leader of a third-party. There is no way you could get anywhere near a majority of Republicans to support her for the nomination. If she were to set her sights a little lower, however, she could probably play some sort of role in the party proper, similar to whatever role Pat Robertson now plays. |
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Gatsby
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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The problem with this Presidential election, as with all Presidential elections, is it is boring.
Not.
Palin is doing to the national Republican Party what the evangelicals did to the Alaska Republican Party: push out the moderate, fiscal conservative Republicans. The religious right doesn't want them around cause they get in the way of their real goals. So, you're darn right that Palin will be aiming for 2012, not just herself, but to rid the Republican Party of the money changer wing. Even if Palin loses in 2012, they will own the party and bide their time till... the last days. And then they will take control.
In other words, you are watching a coup d'etat, and ultimately, the end of the Republican Party, at least as we know it.
Is this a sudden change of heart? Not likely.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=134233&highlight= |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| What I don't quite understand is what party she 'plans' to lead in 2012. Conservative leadership has been jumping overboard for several weeks now and many have said it is largely due to her. She's entirely failed to attract significant support outside her wing of the party. I suppose she could head the Rump Republican Party, but why bother? |
If you're someone who STILL thinks that Palin was a good choice for veep, then you're obviously viewing reality from a very different standpoint than everyone else. Because anyone who's even remotely clued-in realizes that she's been an utter disaster for the Republicans. |
Has she?
In terms of ground game, she brought them out. The plogdits (blogger-pundits) tell us that Palin created an explosion of support from the base.
Meanwhile, the weakness I see in McCain's campaign stems from his strategy and complete breakdown in message discipline.
From a substantive standpoint, Palin is certainly controversial. From a political standpoint, I think she may have been a good choice. Except as far as Florida is concerned.
I don't know, OTOH, your analysis on this seems heavily results-oriented. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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In terms of ground game, she brought them out. The plogdits (blogger-pundits) tell us that Palin created an explosion of support from the base.
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Yes, she brought out one wing of the party but within weeks scared off another wing. Net gain: 0. Winning an election is about building an alliance of factions that form a winning majority. She hasn't demonstrated any skill at this so far.
My gut tells me many of the people who are still supporting her are doing it out of pride and stubbornness. There's an article around about possible ethics problems with the gas pipeline. She's not even finished with 'Taser-gate' as she likes to call it. Her hockey mom persona got damaged with the revelations about Neiman-Marcus. Next time around, Republicans will have other candidates to choose from and I don't think Palin'll fare as well as she has this time--she'll have to earn her way to the top of the ticket.
Polls are saying she is dragging down the ticket more than even Bush. That is an accomplishment.
Kuros does have a point about McCain's poor message performance, which has been abominable. On the other hand, public perception of the message is not good: "Fifty-nine percent of registered voters think McCain's economics would favor the wealthy; just 11 percent the middle class. Far more than being a "center-right" country, this is a middle class country, and a candidate who fails to speak to the concerns of the middle class does so at his own peril." (from 538.com: The Number That Explains It All)
Wasn't the plan to pull in the disaffected Hillary Clinton women and deny them to the Democrats? I think Olympia Snowe might have had a better shot at that. Going for the evangelical right wing was not really necessary--where else did they have to go? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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In terms of ground game, she brought them out. The plogdits (blogger-pundits) tell us that Palin created an explosion of support from the base.
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Yes, she brought out one wing of the party but within weeks scared off another wing. Net gain: 0. |
No. She's scaring off indies, not too many GOP. The other Republicans are going to vote McCain anyway out of fear of Obama. Many of the Dems who voted for Kerry did so primarily against Bush.
I think Palin is giving everyone an excuse to give John a pass on his crapulent campaigning, and also the general impossibility of him winning an election after an unpopular incumbent, during an unpopular war, after the worst market crash in over 50 years. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| No. She's scaring off indies, not too many GOP. |
George Will, Colin Powell, Christopher Buckley, Kathleen Parker, Peggy Noonan, the Goldwater granddaughter...
Not many GOP? Really? |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with those who are stating she was a bad choice. Yes, she did bring out the base. The problem is that independents and the more conservative Democrats are not convinced that they should vote for McCain/Palin. When she was first added to the ticket, conservatives were hoping for more support from women as well. It never happened. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Kuros, we are in agreement here.
Also, I do not know whether S. Palin will become a viable candidate for president in 2012 -- or for anything else, for that matter. I do suspect the Republican Party will regroup and redefine itself much as it did after B. Goldwater's defeat in 1964.
Look for a renewed party by 2010 or 2012. And there are people other than S. Palin around whom the Party might rally between now and then. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Palin is giving everyone an excuse to give John a pass on his crapulent campaigning,... |
I do think you are right about that, though.
In 3 months, when Obama is inaugurated and starts making proposals, many of the people who didn't vote for him will announce that the country rejected McCain because of Palin but the public did not intend to vote for these proposals.
In the two realigning elections: FDR: 57.4% Hoover: 39.7%
Reagan: 50.7% Carter:41.0% |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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With these "leaks" the McCain camp has effectively conceded the election and are already throwing Palin under the bus for the failure they know is coming.
Them and her--what a disaster it thankfully looks like we will be avoiding. |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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If Palin does make a run for 2012, she'll have to go through the Primary process. All those debates... Something to look forward to, folks!  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Good God. I just had a flash of a vision with Palin as President. Sweet Jesus don't let it happen. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| She'll do well against her enemies who seek to destroy her and her allies in the debates. She can just wink, nudge and say something dumb and follow it up with a stroke of the American nationalistic cack. All the people who relate to that will vote for her. If they are the majority (which they might be) she'll win. If they aren't, she won't. |
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