|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Obama and Bill Ayers |
 |
|
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xBlTdsnOh8 |
Obama and Bill Ayers
An association fallacy is an inductive formal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.
Let me try one.
WASHINGTON � First there was Joe the Plumber. Is Joe the Hothead next?
Joe McCain said Friday he'll withdraw from campaign activities for his brother, GOP presidential nominee John McCain, after calling 911 to angrily complain about traffic. Joe McCain has apologized for making the call.
The candidate's younger brother, who lives in Alexandria, Va., told Washington radio station WTOP he was returning from a campaign event in Philadelphia around 2 a.m. on Oct. 18 when he got stuck in traffic on Interstate 495 at the Wilson Bridge. Police say the call was made about 1:30 a.m. Oct. 21.
Frustrated because of the traffic, Joe McCain called 911 to find out what was going on. The operator asked him to "state your emergency." Does idiotic behavior run in the McCain family? Who the hell calls 911 to complain about traffic?
"Well, it's not an emergency, but do you know why on one side at the damn drawbridge of 95 traffic is stopped for 15 minutes and yet traffic's coming the other way?" Joe McCain said.
The operator asked him if he was calling 911 to complain about traffic. McCain then uttered an expletive and hung up the phone.
McCain told WTOP that he thought his cell phone was on mute.
After hanging up with 911, McCain said he called Alexandria police to ask them about the traffic on the bridge and got a similar reaction.
"I did not mean to swear at the officers themselves," McCain said. If he were in their situation, "it would have really frosted me too and I absolutely understand their reaction."
Joe McCain said: "I feel terrible about having hurt the campaign over this incident. I won't be doing any more campaigning because of that." He said he's going to write a note of apology to the 911 operator and to the Alexandria police and he hasn't spoken to his brother, the candidate, about the incident.
"He's not going to be happy about it, I'm sure," Joe McCain said.
McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds said: "Joe McCain recognizes his mistake and has apologized. We are moving on."
One of John McCain's rallying cries in his campaign has been to highlight the concerns of Joe the Plumber, an Ohioan named Joe Wurzelbacher who has become the central thematic element in speeches by McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.
They note that Joe the Plumber accused Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama of fostering tax plans that would keep him from buying the two-man company where he works.
McCain's brother has been in the news on other occasions recently.
Joe McCain, speaking at an event in early October in support of his brother, called two Democratic-leaning areas in Northern Virginia "communist country."
"I've lived here for at least 10 years and before that about every third duty I was in either Arlington or Alexandria, up in communist country," the younger McCain, a Navy veteran, said at an event in Loudoun County, Va. Joe McCain then apologized, but the remark reportedly drew laughter at the event.
About a week later, the candidate's brother sent an e-mail blasting the campaign's "counter-productive" strategy.
"Let John McCain be John McCain," Joe McCain wrote in the e-mail. "Make ads that show John not as crank and curmudgeon but as a great leader for his time."
McCain's brother was sharply critical of unidentified top campaign officials who "so tightly 'control the message'" that they are preventing reporters from speaking with those, like himself, who know the candidate best.
John McCain's brother Joe is an insensitive, ahole jerk, with a hot temper and an inability to treat municipal government workers with respect. Since John McCain has met his brother for years and they share the same DNA then he is probably an insensitive, ahole jerk, with a hot temper too. This is very dangerous for the country. What if John gets mad and tries to start some crap with a 2nd or 3rd world country? It might cost us a lot of spilled blood and upwards of US$10 billion a month if that happens. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| What's wrong, five eagles, why aren't you defending your OP? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
For some reason, I have this feeling that Sarah Palin just propelled Bill Ayers to cult status. I think he will soon be on posters in college room dormitories. Gotta admit those old 1960s photos of him do look kinda cool.
As a current Education MA student (working on my 2nd MA), I have a strong curiousity to read Ayer's writing on Education Reform as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Hammer wrote: |
| The informal fallacy of... |
not reading such contextualizing phrases as "prevailing polarized conditions" confirms that you are a tool.
Is it true that you are a former Marine, Hammer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kikomom
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
As a current Education MA student (working on my 2nd MA), I have a strong curiousity to read Ayer's writing on Education Reform as well. |
TB, As the mother of a current ESL teacher in Korea, I too have a strong curiosity so I've been doing my own reading, and like what I see too. I bought "To Teach" from Amazon and will send it to him when I'm finished reading. 
Bill Ayers' blog:
| Quote: |
Read this
To Teach: The Journey of a Teacher (Teachers College Press)
A Kind and Just Parent:The Children of Juvenile Court (Beacon)
Teaching Toward Freedom: Moral Commitment and Ethical Action in the Classroom (Beacon)
City Kids/ City Schools (The New Press) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
| The Hammer wrote: |
| The informal fallacy of... |
not reading such contextualizing phrases as "prevailing polarized conditions" confirms that you are a tool.
Is it true that you are a former Marine, Hammer? |
not reading such contextualizing phrases as ""Well, it's not an emergency, but do you know why on one side at the damn drawbridge of 95 traffic is stopped for 15 minutes and yet traffic's coming the other way?" Joe McCain said." confirms that you are a Gopher.
Is it true that you are a former Marine, Hammer?
Yes, that's correct. I was a marine, and I served with Gunny Highway at Heartbreak Ridge.
Anyhow, when you can't come up with a well reasoned response then just keep up the personal attacks.
Last edited by The Hammer on Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I was a marine, and I served with Gunny Hightower at Heartbreak Ridge. |
You seem to have a lot more on the ball than the guy who finished 4th from the bottom of his Naval Academy class.
At USMA, almost The Goat.
That kind of military academic record takes a serious amount of consistent *beeping* up and non-action. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| canuckistan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I was a marine, and I served with Gunny Hightower at Heartbreak Ridge. |
You have a lot more on the ball than the guy who finished 4th from the bottom of his Naval Academy class.
At USMA, almost The Goat.
That kind of military academic record takes a serious amount of consistent *beeping* up and non-action. |
Let's listen to John for a minute.
http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=HcdLO3jKkPo&NR=1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I used to buy into McCain's "I'm-a-honorable-guy/war hero" until I read more about his military record.
I have great respect for military. We are military--I've been around it all my life with family members who served and a husband who is presently serving.
I'm also very familiar with that special brand of incorrigible asshole that shouldn't even be in the military. Unless dad's an admiral it seems:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
All this "war hero" spin about McCain is a lot of BS. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| canuckistan wrote: |
I used to buy into McCain's "I'm-a-honorable-guy/war hero" until I read more about his military record.
I have great respect for military. We are military--I've been around it all my life with family members who served and a husband who is presently serving.
I'm also very familiar with that special brand of incorrigible asshole that shouldn't even be in the military. Unless dad's an admiral it seems:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
All this "war hero" spin about McCain is a lot of BS. |
If McCain isn't a war hero , if turning down early release doesn't show character then I don't really know what is.
By the way what is so great about Obama's resume? That ought to be easy to answer since you are supporting him for president.
If Obama were a Republcan his name would be Dan Quayle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| If McCain isn't a war hero , if turning down early release doesn't show character then I don't really know what is. |
Evidently you didn't read the article:
| Quote: |
What McCain glosses over is that accepting early release would have required him to make disloyal statements that would have violated the military's Code of Conduct. If he had done so, he could have risked court-martial and an ignominious end to his military career. "Many of us were given this offer," according to Butler, McCain's classmate who was also taken prisoner. "It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to 'admit' that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was 'lenient and humane.' So I, like numerous others, refused the offer."
"He makes it sound like it was a great thing to have accomplished," says Dramesi. "A great act of discipline or strength. That simply was not the case." In fairness, it is difficult to judge McCain's experience as a POW; throughout most of his incarceration he was the only witness to his mistreatment. Parts of his memoir recounting his days in Hanoi read like a bad Ian Fleming novel, with his Vietnamese captors cast as nefarious Bond villains. On the Fourth of July 1968, when he rejected the offer of early release, an officer nicknamed "Cat" got so mad, according to McCain, that he snapped a pen he was holding, splattering ink across the room.
"They taught you too well, Mac Kane," Cat snarled, kicking over a chair. "They taught you too well."
The brutal interrogations that followed produced results. In August 1968, over the course of four days, McCain was tortured into signing a confession that he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate."
"John allows the media to make him out to be the hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals," says Butler. "John was just one of about 600 guys. He was nothing unusual. He was just another POW."
McCain has also allowed the media to believe that his torture lasted for the entire time he was in Hanoi. At the Republican convention, Fred Thompson said of McCain's torture, "For five and a half years this went on." In fact, McCain's torture ended after two years, when the death of Ho Chi Minh in September 1969 caused the Vietnamese to change the way they treated POWs. "They decided it would be better to treat us better and keep us alive so they could trade us in for real estate," Butler recalls. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| canuckistan wrote: |
I used to buy into McCain's "I'm-a-honorable-guy/war hero" until I read more about his military record.
I have great respect for military. We are military--I've been around it all my life with family members who served and a husband who is presently serving.
I'm also very familiar with that special brand of incorrigible asshole that shouldn't even be in the military. Unless dad's an admiral it seems:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
All this "war hero" spin about McCain is a lot of BS. |
If McCain isn't a war hero , if turning down early release doesn't show character then I don't really know what is.
By the way what is so great about Obama's resume? That ought to be easy to answer since you are supporting him for president.
If Obama were a Republcan his name would be Dan Quayle. |
Maybe back in the day McCain had character, but those glory days are long over. The thing you need to recognize Joo is that people change. Sometimes they change for the better, sometimes for the worse. John McCain has decided to follow low rode. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| canuckistan wrote: |
I used to buy into McCain's "I'm-a-honorable-guy/war hero" until I read more about his military record.
I have great respect for military. We are military--I've been around it all my life with family members who served and a husband who is presently serving.
I'm also very familiar with that special brand of incorrigible asshole that shouldn't even be in the military. Unless dad's an admiral it seems:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
All this "war hero" spin about McCain is a lot of BS. |
Thanks for that link. Very interesting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| canuckistan wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| If McCain isn't a war hero , if turning down early release doesn't show character then I don't really know what is. |
Evidently you didn't read the article:
| Quote: |
What McCain glosses over is that accepting early release would have required him to make disloyal statements that would have violated the military's Code of Conduct. If he had done so, he could have risked court-martial and an ignominious end to his military career. "Many of us were given this offer," according to Butler, McCain's classmate who was also taken prisoner. "It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to 'admit' that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was 'lenient and humane.' So I, like numerous others, refused the offer."
"He makes it sound like it was a great thing to have accomplished," says Dramesi. "A great act of discipline or strength. That simply was not the case." In fairness, it is difficult to judge McCain's experience as a POW; throughout most of his incarceration he was the only witness to his mistreatment. Parts of his memoir recounting his days in Hanoi read like a bad Ian Fleming novel, with his Vietnamese captors cast as nefarious Bond villains. On the Fourth of July 1968, when he rejected the offer of early release, an officer nicknamed "Cat" got so mad, according to McCain, that he snapped a pen he was holding, splattering ink across the room.
"They taught you too well, Mac Kane," Cat snarled, kicking over a chair. "They taught you too well."
The brutal interrogations that followed produced results. In August 1968, over the course of four days, McCain was tortured into signing a confession that he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate."
"John allows the media to make him out to be the hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals," says Butler. "John was just one of about 600 guys. He was nothing unusual. He was just another POW."
McCain has also allowed the media to believe that his torture lasted for the entire time he was in Hanoi. At the Republican convention, Fred Thompson said of McCain's torture, "For five and a half years this went on." In fact, McCain's torture ended after two years, when the death of Ho Chi Minh in September 1969 caused the Vietnamese to change the way they treated POWs. "They decided it would be better to treat us better and keep us alive so they could trade us in for real estate," Butler recalls. |
|
Oh, what-ever.
He was imprisoned by the Vietnamese for roughly half a decade. The man is a hero.
There's partisanship and then there's just plain bullshit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Hammer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| canuckistan wrote: |
I used to buy into McCain's "I'm-a-honorable-guy/war hero" until I read more about his military record.
I have great respect for military. We are military--I've been around it all my life with family members who served and a husband who is presently serving.
I'm also very familiar with that special brand of incorrigible asshole that shouldn't even be in the military. Unless dad's an admiral it seems:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
All this "war hero" spin about McCain is a lot of BS. |
If McCain isn't a war hero , if turning down early release doesn't show character then I don't really know what is.
By the way what is so great about Obama's resume? That ought to be easy to answer since you are supporting him for president.
If Obama were a Republcan his name would be Dan Quayle. |
Maybe back in the day McCain had character, but those glory days are long over. The thing you need to recognize Joo is that people change. Sometimes they change for the better, sometimes for the worse. John McCain has decided to follow low rode. |
You're being far too kind.
He's unexceptional and remains so to this day. Scarily similar to George W's story.
For some people a life of privilege and entitlement just kills all motivation to do substantial things with one's life.
Hence the persona-building BS once they hit politics. And voting whichever way the wind blows in Washington:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23316955/the_doubletalk_express/1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
