Korean Job Discussion Forums

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So let me summarise what I've learned with a few personal observations thrown in. The difference between these should be clear. The title of this thread is stupid because many MAs are Teflers and many Teflers have MAs. By Tefler I mean someone who is devoted to best practice in EFL.
When I talk about unis or uni jobs here - I'm not talking about unigwon positions. Also this is just from my personal experience. (Thanks midnightrunner)

1. BAs - suck it up. Most unis insist on MAs and ALL good unis in Seoul.
2. The number of unis admitting teachers with just a BA is declining.
3. If you just have a BA, you might get accepted in a 2nd or 3rd level uni or 2 year college(similar hours & vacation/worse pay) if no one with an MA wants it. However even the number here is declining. This is the way the wind's blowing as members like PRagic have pointed out many times.
4. Teaching experience and TEFL qualifications will be the deciding factor among all the MA applicants but not between an MA and a BA.
5.Unis insist on the MA in hand at time of application. Rarely will you get anywhere by saying "I'm almost finished. I'll have it by X date" Worth a try though sometimes.
6. Applying with just a BA to a uni where they state an MA is required, is mostly a waste of time, no matter how much experience/how many TEFL qualifications you have. They won't even reply.
7. It's nothing to do with hiring the demonstrably best teacher, but rather making sure for reasons of protocol or prestige that all their staff have a graduate degree.
8. Gradually the awareness is growing that EFL qualifications/experience will reduce the risk of an ineffective teacher, but still the MA is the first priority for them.
9. Uni teachers have more to do (like counselling) than just teaching.
10.The actual teaching itself at unis is not subject to regular scrutiny such as might be faced in western countries or in the rare quality adult hagwon with a western Director of Studies. Popularity counts for a lot in student evaluations of you. This rewards those who are lively, funny and creative.
11. An MATESOL/App. Ling holder with teaching experience and EFL qualifications is almost unstoppable.
Only a PHd with a similar profile will defeat that.
12. There's very little competition to the CELTA as an initial EFL qualification and the DELTA as an advanced qualification.
13. EFL specialists in hagwons should be careful about deriding the "pseudo professors" in unis or looking down on relative amateurs in public schools. How clever would you be with 20-40 students in your class?!!
14. You might get extra pay for an online EFL cert. but you won't get professional respect from the hardcore EFL teaching community. You just didn't open yourself up for feedback and put yourself on the line.


As to the debate about who make the best teachers. There is no definitive answer. Experienced, qualified EFL teachers can still be bad teachers due to a variety of factors like personality, preparation and general professionalism and newbie MAs can be great for the same factors without EFL training too if they read up on the methods and practice them and seek feedback.

Thank you for your participation in this thread. I respect MA holders and especially those whose MA is related to teaching English. Arguing about its contribution to teaching skill will no doubt continue.

As for myself, I am a champion of EFL teaching methods such as:

Practising effective communicative activities
Effective use of pairwork/groupwork
Pronunciation skills regularly rehearsed
Regular error feedback in a variety of formats
Properly taught grammatical structures in the right sequence
Maximum student talk time. Limit on TTT
A variety of approaches like PPP/TTT/TBA
Activation in speech/writing of vocab & grammar not just presentation & practice.
Teaching skills/functions & topics
Using needs analyses / Using technology
Making it fun/Using positive reinforcement
Above all making as much of the lesson as possible interactive

There are those who practise such methods without having been trained to and who have reflected upon their relative success but IMHO real improvement comes on courses in EFL with observed teaching practice. There is also the possibility that a bunch of teachers in a department might agree to reading up, experimentation and peer observation. There's nothing like failing and making mistakes under observation to help you to get it right. Feedback is the key.

Whether by CELTA/DELTA or by peer observation, there's just no substitute for this in my opinion. Very few people have it within themselves to teach themselves EFL methods effectively. That said if you got loads of classes and large numbers, talk is cheap!

[bassexpander]

Please provide some proof.

From what I've seen, more unis are accepting people with BA's. Unigwons have exploded in the past few years, and guess who generally get those jobs? BAs.

And the CELTA? Nice, but most Koreans don't have a clue what it is. British English isn't the norm here, and neither are the TEFL certifications. Elsewhere, yes. Korea, no.

You're basically talking out of your pie-hole with no figures to back up what you're saying.

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Midnightrunner

Sorry. My bad. I wasn't referring to unigwon positions and I should have made that clear.

"talking out of your pie-hole with no figures to back up what you're saying"

I did say at the beginning "this is what I've learned" (did you see that?) rather than this is what is objectively true, but I accept the criticism.

As for the CELTA/DELTA being unvalued in Korea - again I accept that but again I mentioned their value because of observed teaching practice rather than success through reading/writing assignments - meat and drink to any smart graduate. This means something to EFL practioners but admittedly not to all.

(I edited on all points as you can see)

[bassexpander]

Personally, I just wanted to use the term, "pie-hole".



By the way, your avatar looks like young vader on crack.

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snigger!

from a great cult classic movie though...you should download "Withnail and I"....probably the most brilliant brit movie ever...

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bump!

[BS.Dos.]

Too much typing, not enough thinking.

[BS.Dos.]

Sorry, drinking.

[Tobias]

But you're making a possibly grotesque assumption:

teachers with the best qualifications will continue to come here.

Based on the rumour that two-year degrees are being accepted, the rumour that thousands of Filipinos will soon be given the green light to teach here, and the fact the won is taking a huge dump, I'd say Korea should thank its lucky stars those with simple BS degrees choose to come here to work. This applies to TESOL across the board, including the universities.

And a lot of BS holders think like I do, so the MA ranks won't be increasing by much. Understand that if and when I decide to get an MA, I wil pay at most around 8 grand for it. And that is that. If my status
as 'native speaker', holder of a BS degree in English & TESOL cert, and four years' experience aren't enough, then it'll be time to move on.

Most of the time, even at the supposed 'cherry' university positions, coming to a job with high-powered creds is like wearing a tuxedo to a ditch digging or hog butchering. I know there are truly great jobs out there in TESOL, but they're so competitive one shouldn't count on being able to get one of those, lest he not mind being unemployed for months or even a year or longer while he searches...and searches...and waits. I mean, that's why you want to get the MA in the first place. The jobs that require those are (allegedly) 'good', meaning everybody wants those.

So I spend my mulla on an MA, get in line for a cushy job, and wait..... But will I will even want to get the MA in TESOL, knowing what the students are like, conditions are like, and the pay is like in TESOL?

[meangradin]

I second Tobias' point; this is not a country that rewards highly educated teachers. As the OP himself wrote, in uni. it is a popularity contest. I have been contemplating an MA for a few years, but I just don't see how it will have any effect on my earning potential. If one feels the need to study for personal reasons then that is another matter, but a foreigner teaching English at a Korean Uni. is never going to make six figures, even with a PhD from the mythical Harvard.

[Mr. Pink]

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bump!