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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| They're your homegrown political elite. |
No, they are not. In many ways, they are mere frontmen. Elected officials do not necessarily represent America's political elite. Look to prestigious institutions such as the Council on Foreign Relations for that. |
Big Bird and her article are two years too late. Obama is not anti-intellectual on any level. |
I think the writer of the article recognises very well that Obama is not a village idiot. But you are ignoring that it is possible RIGHT NOW for someone like Sarah Palin to be proffered up as VP. And that is quite amazing. |
The problem with outsiders is that they are often superficial observers.
The law of the VeeP choice is that a VeeP is not likely to win very many votes, but a bad VeeP choice can hurt you.
Sarah Palin has hurt John McCain, particularly in Florida. When she goes around talking about the 'real' America, Americans are put off. According to your article, Americans, because they are dumb and anti-intellectual, should be eating it up. But they're not. The bottom of the ticket is actually weighing John McCain down.
You have just been schooled in American politics, Big Bird. Why go to some crappy Guardian op-ed when you have experts like myself and others on this board to explain things to you? You are welcome. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| They're your homegrown political elite. |
No, they are not. In many ways, they are mere frontmen. Elected officials do not necessarily represent America's political elite. Look to prestigious institutions such as the Council on Foreign Relations for that. |
Big Bird and her article are two years too late. Obama is not anti-intellectual on any level. |
I think the writer of the article recognises very well that Obama is not a village idiot. But you are ignoring that it is possible RIGHT NOW for someone like Sarah Palin to be proffered up as VP. And that is quite amazing. |
The problem with outsiders is that they are often superficial observers.
The law of the VeeP choice is that a VeeP is not likely to win very many votes, but a bad VeeP choice can hurt you.
Sarah Palin has hurt John McCain, particularly in Florida. When she goes around talking about the 'real' America, Americans are put off. According to your article, Americans, because they are dumb and anti-intellectual, should be eating it up. But they're not. The bottom of the ticket is actually weighing John McCain down.
You have just been schooled in American politics, Big Bird. Why go to some crappy Guardian op-ed when you have experts like myself and others on this board to explain things to you? You are welcome. |
I am watching you getting your feathers ruffled, Kuros, and I am laughing. But not nearly as much as I have laughed at one of your choices (and a very much endorsed choice by a significant number of your population) for VP. What a joke! |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Nice summary of how Western European elites will deign to speak of B. Obama, Big_Bird: "Obama: not the village idiot."
Terrorist-lover. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| But not nearly as much as I have laughed at one of your choices (and a very much endorsed choice by a significant number of your population) for VP. What a joke! |
*I* am not the one to nominate VeeP candidates. That's for the Presidential candidates to do themselves.
But hey, at least we get to elect our heads of state.  |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| But hey, at least we get to elect our heads of state. |
Dare to dream. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Nice summary of how Western European elites will deign to speak of B. Obama, Big_Bird: "Obama: not the village idiot." |
Nice illustration of how you right-wingnuts like to twist people's words. And of course you're the first to cry foul if there's any chance your critics can be shown to have done the same thing!
| Gopher wrote: |
| Terrorist-lover. |
Is that a self-parody? I can't tell. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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I believe Gopher had his tongue firmly planted in his cheek when he wrote that post.
Anyway, we horrid Brits have a tradition of making fun of your President's intelligence: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ5te0CVBgY |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| It said "in particular fundamentalist religion". Sure, maybe that doesn't make you stupid, but you have to be dead stupid to believe it. |
| Juregen wrote: |
Not religion per se. the stress is on Fundamental religious believe.
Fundamentalist take the word of God as finite and see no reason to explore any further. The role of man is set est voila, no one knows any better.
Modern Society thrive on asking questions and changing perspectives, otherwise defined as growth. Fundamentalists will fight against any change imaginable. |
| The OP's article wrote: |
| One theme is both familiar and clear: religion - in particular fundamentalist religion - makes you stupid. |
Yeah, I was right. |
No. He's pretty much focussed on FUNDAMENTALISTS, just as others have pointed out. We have plenty of normal sane balanced religious people in Europe. And quietly hidden away, we also have a segment of religious nutters. It's only in the US that the crazy religious nutters seem to be out of control, and practically running the country (in the case of George W). |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
No. He's pretty much focussed on FUNDAMENTALISTS, just as others have pointed out. We have plenty of normal sane balanced religious people in Europe. And quietly hidden away, we also have a segment of religious nutters. It's only in the US that the crazy religious nutters seem to be out of control, and practically running the country (in the case of George W). |
"Religion (especially fundamentalism) makes you stupid."
He could have said, "Fundamentalist religion makes you stupid." He did not.
The Guardian: needlessly and senselessly provocative. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
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When I lived in Northern Ireland while at University, I would sometimes buy three sunday papers. The Sunday Indo, the guardian and the Sunday Mail.
If you read the headline in the Indo which is kind of a little right of center and then go the mail(right) and the guardian(left) you would get pretty big shifts in how a story is reported.
The Guardian has way better sports coverage than the mail though as does the Indo. I tend to judge a paper by that, which is why the mail dropped out of my sunday circulation to be replaced by the times.
edit: that was quite a ramble. the basic point is that the G is pretty left wing..but great in sports and also..has a great online version.
Last edited by JMO on Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| We have plenty of normal sane balanced religious people in Europe. And quietly hidden away, we also have a segment of religious nutters. It's only in the US that the crazy religious nutters seem to be out of control, and practically running the country (in the case of George W). |
Another example that shows how Western European smug elitism myopically looks at its post-Second-World-War, post-imperial, present-day appearance at the expense of throwing centuries upon centuries of its insane and imbalanced past down an Orwellian memory hole when comparing itself -- favorably, of course -- to "the quiet Americans..."
And most religious Americans I know, on the ground, are people I would call normal, sane, and balanced people. What I see on the news, the high-profile, sensationalist stories on the far right and especially on the right-to-life faction, does not correspond with everyday life as I experience it.
Get past the silly, self-serving stereotypes and discover the Americans, Big_Bird. They are diverse in more ways than you can count. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Another example that shows how Western European smug elitism myopically looks at its post-Second-World-War, post-imperial, present-day appearance at the expense of throwing centuries upon centuries of its insane and imbalanced past down an Orwellian memory hole when comparing itself -- favorably, of course -- to "the quiet Americans..."
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Is this also a parody? Because it's definitely good. Very Newsnight review in it's language although obviously a different subject.
If anything though, i'd try to be more indignant. For effect, you know.
edit: Christ..especially Orwellian memory hole..fantastic.
Last edited by JMO on Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
edit: that was quite a ramble. the basic point is that the G is pretty left wing..but great in sports and also..has a great online version. |
Right, I agree. The Guardian has its merits. But reporting on the US is not one of them.
Plus, this is an editorial. Editorials, from whatever source, have a presumption of 'this is crap' IMHO. |
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head-in-the-clouds
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: London for now
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Can i make it clear that the Guardian is a paper written by and on behalf of the champagne socialists in London and does not in any way reflect the view of the average britain. In fact the average Britain thinks that your average Guardian reader is a complete assholer.
Much has been posted here, particulary Gopher, stating that this editorial is a sad indictment on my nation. Get a grip, this toilet paper of a daily rag is read by about 300,000 daily in a population of 68 million.
The guardian is only good for sport and i know plenty of people who buy the paper, take out the sports pages and leave the rest on a bus or train. There are many unread pages of the wankian onmy way home.
Perhaps i should be more like Gopher and suggest that one article in the South carolina times is a sad indictment on Americans. |
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