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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Donald Frost
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:42 am Post subject: Re: Yo, Let's Leave |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| citizen erased wrote: |
Lets finish up our immediate plans and do something else.
Me: 9 months, MBA finished, two years korean "experience," 18 won in the bank.
2.5 is not per capita wage in any western country.
"Per capita GDP" includes infants and housewives. Oh, and the Go-jee.
so, on average, your local toothlessmthrfkr makes more than u do.
bring it, kids. |
All the people can take a look at their alternatives.
GDP per capita also hides the amount of hours the average person is working. As an American you assume GDP depends on 40 hour weeks, while it is clear that GDP in Korea depends on 60-70 hour week. Ergo Sum, your income is also determined by the amount of hours you work.
How many people on a BA can earn 10-15$ an hour?
You take the current weakness of the Won relative to the dollar, and decide that for you it is no longer enough. So be it. But this weakness is temporal and once the markets stabilizes again, then it is time to really think what to do.
Going back is not an option for a lot of people because the chance is low you will actually find a job anyway.
Try to think a bit more about what you are saying. |
Oohh, that was a low blow, eh? |
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stacyrb
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Netz wrote: |
| xingyiman wrote: |
| I guess I could go back home and apply for unemployment along with every other professional dude or dudette who's suffereing from massive layoffs. How much does a person pull on welfare nowadays? |
Almost as much as the average salary for an ESL teacher in South Korea these days. |
Max unemployment is $362/week = $1448
Bills (average)
Rent - $700
Elec - $75
Gas - $75
Car Payment - $275
Car Insurance - $150
Cable - $80
Cell Phone - $55
Total Bills - $1410
Leaves $38 to buy food, pay for medications/hospital bills, transportation expenese to find a new job, etc. If you ditched cable and got a prepaid cell phone and used the library to hunt for jobs, you've bought yourself an extra $135 brining you up to $178.
My salary at the school 2,100,000 KRW
Take home is ~1,995,000 after health care, pension, etc (~8.5%). This also does not count the month's severance, month's pension refund, airfare ticket home, plus (if applicable) the signing bonus/extra pay if you renew.
Rent - 0
Elec - 30,000KRW
Gas - 50,000KRW
Car Payment - 385000KRW ($275 @1400KRW/USD)
Car Ins - 70,000 ($50 at 1400KRW/USD)
Cable - 30,000 KRW
Cell phone - 50,000 KRW
Total Bills - 615,000KRW
Leaving - 1,380,000KRW to buy food, save money, go out, pay off student loans.
1,380,000KRW at 950KRW/USD = $1,452
1,380,000KRW at 1400KRW/USD = $982
A "loss" of $470 per month. However, you are living in korea so unless you are sending every single dime home every month, you are still buying food in KRW, still going for drinks in KRW, still paying for flights in KRW. Maybe even Amazon.com lets you pay in KRW.
So you send $500 per month home every month for credit cards, student loans, etc.
$500USD = 475,000 KRW at 950KRW/USD
$500USD = 700,000 KRW at 1400KRW/USD
So, you're spending 225,000KRW extra per month to send that money home.
Still a damn sight better than unemployment.
Stacy |
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Whirlwind
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: |
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I like how you always tweak the stats in Korea's favor. Funny.
First thing, with unemployment you make that money without working. Whereas in Korea, most do 120 hours or more time at the office a month. You have to factor that in right off the bat. While you're dealing with the insanity of hagwons/public schools, Joe unemployed guy is eating pizza and watching hockey. Hours worked for him: 0.
Why have a $275 car payment? You can get buy a used car at a fairly decent price. No need to make a car payment every month. $80 for cable?!!! Uh, where did you get your cable back home? If you were paying $80 for cable, you were a dumbass. Also, with the internet, why do you even need cable back home. Internet is what, about $30 a month back home? About the cell phone. Just get a freaking pay as you go phone. If you are paying $55 a month, you are talking too much. Reduce. Your rent rate of $700 is a bit high. I can find places back home in the $500-600 range(and some of those places have utilities included). Just don't live in the heart of the big city.
For Korea: Your utilities are a bit low. A lot of teachers live in officetels and those places have a 90,000-100,000/month fee not including gas/water. Throw in the gas/water bills and you're in the range of 150,000(in the summer) to about 180,000 in the winter. This is the total including the officetel maintenance fees. And why would anyone have a car payment in Korea? Again, buy used. Your car is going to get trashed anyway by the traffic and insane driving, so why would anyone be making car payments here. Save a bit of money and buy used. Where did you get a 30,000 won cable bill in Korea. This includes internet, right?
Of course you're going to be in a better financial situation than Joe unemployed guy, but he doesn't have it as bad as you might think. He doesn't have to drag his ass out of bed in the morning... |
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stacyrb
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Whirlwind,
I believe we got into a similar discussion on another thread.
| Whirlwind wrote: |
| I like how you always tweak the stats in Korea's favor. Funny. |
I like it how you always assume my numbers are wrong with very little to back it up.
| Whirlwind wrote: |
| Uh, where did you get your cable back home? If you were paying $80 for cable, you were a dumbass. Also, with the internet, why do you even need cable back home. Internet is what, about $30 a month back home? |
I don't know how long you've been out of the country. Perhaps you're not even a US Citizen, but a denizen of another country. Maybe you should look information up before calling people names.
www.comcast.com
www.wowway.com
Zip Code 48326
For WOW, the cheapest bundle you can get is internet/phone/cable for $79.99/month. If you just get two services, it's over $80/month.
For Comcast, the cheapest bundle is $117/month. The cheapest cable is $50/month and the cheapest internet is $57/month. So even if you just had cable and internet, you're looking at $107/month. So at the very least, internet is at a minimum of $57, plus delivery charges, modem fees, taxes, service charge etc, which brings you right back up to almost $80. We haven't been able to find internet for $30/month since paying AOL $29.99/month for 56.6k speed. When we lived in New York City, Chris' company paid our high speed internet bill which was over $100/month for just internet back when high speed was new.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=135493
Page 8
If you can show me where you can get a 2 bedroom apartment or house for less than $700/month, please pass it on.
You really like to think in the short term. A junk car requires money for repair, etc. Payments on a car (even one in storage while in Korea) builds your credit report, gives you reliable tranportation and measure of safety. On $178 per month (or the extra $600 per month if there was no car payment), 1) how could you save up money for a car if you were unemployed and 2) if you were somewhere (be it Korea, England or Malta) where you were working, you might be able to save up for that beater.
Let me see... would I rather have $178 to my name and sit on my a$$... Because that is what it would be, sitting doing nothing because at $178 a month before food, that leaves little money for buying anything, much less nights out drinking or at the movies or even an extra book now and then.
Or would I rather work 120 hours per month (30 hours per week) and have 1.3mil KRW to my name at the end?
Hummmmm... let me think about that one.
If my only goal in life was to scrape by for 26 weeks before unemployment ran out, eating $5 Pizza every night (which would take up $150 of my $178 available), then yeah, being unemployed would be great!
Stacy |
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stacyrb
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
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If we take Whirlwind under advisement for the utilities charges and ditch a reliable car for a beater... what do we get?
Max unemployment is $362/week = $1448
Bills (average)
Rent - $700
Elec - $75
Gas - $75
Cable - $80
Cell Phone - $55
Total Bills - $985
Leaves $463 to buy food, pay for medications/hospital bills, transportation expenese to find a new job, etc.
Salary - 2,100,000KRW
After Deductions - 1,995,000KRW
Rent - 0
Utilities/Maint - 180,000KRW
Cable - 30,000 KRW
Cell phone - 50,000 KRW
Total Bills - 260,000KRW
Leaving - 1,735,000KRW to buy food, save money, go out, pay off student loans.
Even at 1500KRW/USD, 1,735,000KRW = 1,156USD. Still better off than on unemployment.
Stacy |
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cobright
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Some people have a carpayment already. I suppose I could just let them repo it and then go buy a PoS car to haul my babies around in. But for a couple hundy a month savings that's only a little retarded. |
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Whirlwind
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I never said that unemployment was neato and super groovy. Obviously, a job where you're compensated somewhat decently will trump that situation. However, you tend to site stats that are favorable to Korea and make it look like back home is just hellaciously expensive. I call you out on it. You get pissy.
Hey, I got an idea. Instead of paying $80 a month for internet/phone/cable, why not...just not get them. I know an earth shaking idea. Get the pay as you go phone. Read a book or two. Yeah, I guess that's too much of a sacrifice. Oh, you lived in New York City, gosh I wonder why it was so expensive  . LOL
2 bedroom apartment/house. Most foreign teachers don't live in a 2 bedroom apartment or a house. We usually live in a one bedroom place. No shit you are going to pay more than $700 a month . I repeat, MOST TEACHERS HERE LIVE IN A ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT. Most are single, in case you didn't know. I'll revise just for you: A one bedroom apartment can be found back home for between $500-600 a month. Happy?
Oh, and you never need repairs for new cars . Yeah, only old cars require repairs. Sure. Obviously, if you are unemployed, you ain't gonna be getting a car. But I would think that before that person got unemployed, they might have a car. I mean, I guess every unemployed person that you know doesn't have a car.
We can agree to disagree. That's cool. But stop with the misleading stats...or keep going on...knock yourself out. |
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rationality
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Some where in S. Korea
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by rationality on Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cobright
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Whirlwind wrote: |
1.>Hey, I got an idea. Instead of paying $80 a month for internet/phone/cable, why not...just not get them.
2.>Get the pay as you go phone. Read a book or two. Yeah, I guess that's too much of a sacrifice.
3.>I repeat, MOST TEACHERS HERE LIVE IN A ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT.
4.>Oh, and you never need repairs for new cars . Yeah, only old cars require repairs. |
1.) Ever try to look for a job without internet and a phone? TV is a luxury, but a very cheap one if you are getting the phone and Net anyway.
2.) Pay as you go phones are wicked expensive genius. Especially if you're sporting calls for interviews all the time.
3.) We have a two-bedroom in Ulsan waiting for us /shrug
4.) You realize that newer cars have warranties right? You can't be that dense.
Seriously, how old are you? Or better put, how long have you supported yourself in this grown-up world? You make alot of assumptions but your numbers don't jive with reality. |
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stacyrb
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Whirlwind wrote: |
| However, you tend to site stats that are favorable to Korea and make it look like back home is just hellaciously expensive. I call you out on it. You get pissy. |
One can only hope that you teach only spoken English and not reading comprehension.
I have provided, each time, links to reputable sources that show how much cable costs and the costs of apartments as well as availablity. And Detroit is #127 on the most expensive city lists, so I can reasonably make the argument that the Detroit costs that we pay are not outrageous in comparison to other locations in the US. Short of one upstart DSL company, Comcast and WOW are the only cable internet providers we have to choose from.
Here *is* heallaciously expensive for items that in other places are relatively inexpensive, we just happen to be speaking of Korea specifically.
High speed internet in Korea is 30,000KRW/month.
$20-$30 depending on the exchange rate (950 - 1500)
In the US the cheapest you can get for high speed internet is $70+ per month.
It is simple math.
30,000KRW IS LESS THAN $60USD.
For ESL Teachers who don't pay rent:
0KRW IS LESS THAN $700 USD.
Even if you were lucky enough to get a $400 bed and hotplate in Pontiac.
0KRW IS LESS THAN $400 USD.
Utilities & Maintenance:
180,000KRW (by your own calculations)
Between $120 - $189 depending on the exchange rate (950 - 1500)
Utilities & Maintenance in the US:
Gas - $75
Electricity - $75
Trash - $20
Water/Sewer- $35
Total = $205 USD
180,000KRW IS LESS THAN $205USD
If anything, I have made the outlook on life in the US look even rosier than it should be. My car payment is closer to $400 per month, plus living in Michigan means hot summers and freezing winters. Our average gas bill in the winter is $200 (and that's with the thermostat at 66 degrees) and $180 in the summer for electricity. Add in the fact that those figures don't count for transportation too and from work (which we currently spend $250 per month on). The outlook for the US could have been painted much much worse.
Now, does that mean that there aren't downsides to living in Korea? Of course not. You're in a foreign country where most of the people regard you with suspicion if not outright dislike. You can't buy the food or the clothing you want in the sizes you want. But the fact of the matter is that for an ESL teacher it is cheaper to live in Korea (short of a 3 bedroom some where in Seoul that you have to pay for yourself) than it is to live in most places of the United States.
Edit
| Whirlwind wrote: |
| Oh, and you never need repairs for new cars . Yeah, only old cars require repairs. Sure. |
It's called a 100,000 mile/10 year warranty with a $50 deductible. So when the engine went out, we paid $50, instead of $2000 or a "new" beater.
End Edit
Stacy |
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Nierlisse
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| stacyrb wrote: |
Median annual income for BA/BS degree is 43k/year.
That's $20.67 per hour. So yes, I would say that $10-$15 per hour for a BA degree is more than acceptable.
Stacy |
43k a year?!? Where are THOSE jobs?! Even combining my salary with my husband's, we don't make that much.
Free rent in Korea; that's better than our $500 mortgage payment. Big city = no car so no paying for gas or repairs or insurance. Korea, here I come! |
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