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Obama: the same or worse?

 
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:27 am    Post subject: Obama: the same or worse? Reply with quote

Just as Clinton was able to get away with things for which a Republican would have been lambasted (e.g. end welfare), with Obama it will be even worse considering the indentity politics involved.

Will Obama �Change� The Bush Police State Or Expand It?

Will liberals go back to sleep now the �messiah� has arrived?

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Wednesday, November 5, 2008


Now that Barack Obama has become the 44th President of the United States we offer a challenge - will those who elected him be able to progress past their fawning idolatry and actually pressure Obama to deliver on his mandate of �change,� or will the architecture of the Bush police state remain in place while the American empire expands?

Obama�s acceptance speech assertion that �change has come to America� is likely to signal the beginning and end of the �change� that millions of Americans naively thought they were voting for.

That�s it folks, the puppet has been rotated. Sorry to be so cynical, but the �change� you thought you were electing is already over and done with. The color of his skin matters about as much as whether he has an R or a D next to his name. The egregious spending will continue, government will balloon in size, American soldiers will be used as cannon fodder for more interventionist wars of the military-industrial complex, U.S. citizens will continue to have their phone calls tapped and their rights curtailed, and the Federal Reserve will continue to rule the financial system with an iron fist while the middle class is squeezed out of existence.

How can Obama claim that �change has come to America� when he hasn�t even set foot in the White House? What specifically has Obama promised to change beside his plan to redecorate the White House?

It seems that a lot of the truthers and activists, as well as the liberal left, seem to have forgotten that the responsibility to �change� America rests with the American people. As Gandhi said, we have to be the change we want to see in the world.

Obama is no messiah, he is a representative, a public servant, for those that elected him into office. Will those that voted for him in the name of changing eight years of Bush administration malfeasance hold his feet to the fire and demand the repeal of the American police state that Bush has crafted, or will they simply go back to sleep and consider their work done simply because another Democrat is in office?

The majority of liberals gleefully supported or simply ignored the bombing of Serbia and the genocidal sanctions against Iraq because of the cult of personality built up around Bill Clinton. Will Obama be another ideologue for the left to associate their power with or will they actually demand that he restore America to the Constitution? Will the left ninny and obsess about non-issues like gay marriage and welfare programs while allowing the Bush police state to remain in place?

Remember, the Democrats were handed the Congress and the Senate in 2006 with a mandate for change. What has changed since that time? Nothing whatsoever. American troops are still in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Patriot Act is still in place, phone calls are still being tapped and war criminals who committed impeachable offences still go free.

But in an attempt to avoid being labeled �right-wing racists� and all manner of spurious labels now being carelessly heaped upon anyone who doesn�t follow the herd and bow down at the feet of Lord Obama, we�re going to remain constructive and set Obama, and by extension those that voted for him, some challenges to bring real �change� to America and restore the country to the Constitution and the ideals of the Founders that Obama mentioned in his speech last night.

Let�s be generous and give Obama the whole four years of his initial term to make significant progress on the following issues. Here are some questions about �change� that we are going to be keeping track of until 2012.

- Will Obama repeal Patriot Acts I and II as well as reversing Bush�s signing statement and acknowledging the repeal of the John Warner Defense Authorization Act?

- Will Obama support Dennis Kucinich�s efforts to bring war crimes charges against Bush, Cheney and others for deceiving the country into a war or will he protect them against such charges like Nancy Pelosi has done?

- Will Obama bring war crimes charges against Bush, Cheney and others for authorizing torture and will the torture of suspects under U.S. detention, a complete violation of both the Constitution and the Geneva Conventions, cease under an Obama administration?

- Will Obama withdraw American troops from Iraq and Afghanistan without sending them away again to bomb another broken-backed third world country in the name of a UN-supported �humanitarian� war?

- Will Obama end the warrantless secret surveillance and phone-taps of American citizens?

- Will Obama follow through on his rhetorical support for the second amendment or will he seek to ban guns as he did in Illinois?

- Will Obama cease his support for the Bush-administration backed banker bailouts, hated by the majority of Americans, and target the real cause of the problem - the Federal Reserve - or will he continue to give taxpayers� money to banks who are merely hoarding it all for themselves?

- Will Obama seek to continue the militarization of America and preparations for martial law through Northcom and the secret government or will he dismantle the police state that has been constructed over the last eight years by the Bush administration?

There can be no excuses - either Obama will be proven to be a liar or he will, backed by Democratic control of Congress and the Senate, follow through on his mandate for �change�.

People like Congressman Ron Paul are too long in the tooth and have watched too many political campaigns to glibly jump on the bandwagon of political platitudes.

Those caught up in Obama fever who would have otherwise voted for Ron Paul should heed the warnings of Dr. No.

As the coming of the new messiah drew closer, Paul had some sobering reminders for a CNN audience last night, pointing out that Obama will not cut spending, government will get bigger and more intrusive, foreign policy will remain the same and unpopular financial bailouts will continue.

We hope we are wrong, but forgive us for our cynicism, because whatever has emerged from the two-party monopoly in the past has always proven to be the problem - not the solution.
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only time will tell.

However, under a McCain/Palin ticket, it was GUARANTEED the same with no fresh ideas whatsoever.

If Obama/Biden turns out to NOT have change...which I don't foresee, as you will have an entire group of new people who see the world differently with different visions. Only time will tell. He hasn't even got in office yet, let alone choose his cabinet, etc.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiger Beer wrote:
If Obama/Biden turns out to NOT have change...which I don't foresee, as you will have an entire group of new people who see the world differently with different visions.

And that "entire group of new people" would be who exactly? Biden isn't exactly "new," and judging Obama by his votes, what exactly is he seeing differently?

OK, yes, let's wait and see what happens. I am just not holding my breath.


Last edited by bacasper on Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
Tiger Beer wrote:
If Obama/Biden turns out to NOT have change...which I don't foresee, as you will have an entire group of new people who see the world differently with different visions.

And that "entire group of new people" would be who exactly? Biden isn't exactly "new,"

They are "new"....as Prez and VP.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiger Beer wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Tiger Beer wrote:
If Obama/Biden turns out to NOT have change...which I don't foresee, as you will have an entire group of new people who see the world differently with different visions.

And that "entire group of new people" would be who exactly? Biden isn't exactly "new,"

They are "new"....as Prez and VP.

They are changing offices, not parties. How is that going to change their worldviews?
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Carroll, a guy who I think offers a lot of insight and "sanity" vis a vis American politics, wrote a piece that complements the above. It's worth reading.

I really think as short as a year ago, Obama truly thought he could win with "REAL" change. Slowly, he realized he couldn't and it become "SHORT" change. Now, as I see it, it isn't even short. He's been converted and yes, just another face change.....

But we can always keep hope alive....

DD
http://eflclassroom.ning.com
Quote:

James Carroll: We can't shut out the past
By James Carroll
Published: November 4, 2008

America is a house with many rooms. In an image of the writer Philip Slater, our frontier legacy instilled in us the habit of taking possession of one pristine room at a time.

Instead of occupying the whole house at once, we have lived in it room by room, successively. At first, we love the clean feeling of a fresh space, but gradually we litter the room with accumulations, both material and spiritual. Garbage and broken promises clutter the corners, then spill into the center of the room. Waste, excess, and lost innocence pile high.

Finally, unable to stand it, we pack a few special possessions and open the next door, ready for a fresh start, a new room. Because the house is so big, there is always unused space, just waiting for us to claim it. Close the door on the sullied past.

This is what the continental progression from spoiled east to ever-virginal west amounted to, in Slater's metaphor - a nation that never had to reckon with its profligate ways because there was always the next frontier. The great American ideal of freedom was thus founded on freedom from accountability.

Slater's metaphor obviously applies to a long-operative environmental irresponsibility, as polluted cities were left behind for pastoral suburbs, and as sprawl-ruined suburbs are now being left behind for evergreen exurbs.
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The metaphor precisely describes the geographic state of American education, with trashed inner-city schools left behind by "No Child Left Behind." But the metaphor applies more abstractly, too - as we see U.S. foreign policy on Iraq, for example, defined, first, by wrecking the room, and then (now), by getting the hell out (let's try Afghanistan.) We solve our problems by leaving them behind. We don't do consequences.

Today, the United States stands at a threshold, marked by the election. As has happened so often before, a new room seems to lie open before us - but this is a room with a view. What is seen from there means that the whole house of America might never look the same. The threshold itself is the transformation. So let's just vote, and, as the admirable but poorly named antiwar organization proposes, move on.

No, let's not. Thinking of the election simply as a fresh start is a temptation to be resisted. There will be no closing the door on what America has been doing, so let's not even try. After voting, instead of lighting out, let's turn back and reckon with what has been befouled.

This is a matter of specific policies: end the Middle East wars, of course, but cooperate in unprecedented international diplomacy to eliminate the causes of war; change the urban-suburban social contract to bring impoverished inner cities back into economic and cultural vitality; recast the underpinnings of the economy, with one eye on demilitarizing it and another on making justice count as much as profit.

But more than policy, a change in American mythology is required. No innocence abroad; none at home. Good intentions aren't enough. The last frontier is long closed. No new frontiers. No moving on. Only one Earth. Love it or lose it. That's the truth, which has consequences.

Everyone is asking what kind of leader our next president will be. But there is a prior question: What kind of people will we be? The transformation that matters tomorrow is the one that occurs in the hearts of citizens. Can we cast our votes as a personal promise to be responsible for where and how we live?

Democracy does not end with the ballot, but begins there. Our ill-treated house, staying with the metaphor, has brought the neighborhood down, even as we and our housemates have not been good to one another. Can we change? Yes.

The convergence of historic U.S. foreign policy failures, an epochal economic collapse, a cultural mutation spawned by information technology, a make-or-break moment for American schools, the global environmental challenge and the arrival of new political leadership - all of this defines the threshold on which we stand.

Not a new room, but the only room there ever was, waiting to be finally ruined - or fully renewed.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
Tiger Beer wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Tiger Beer wrote:
If Obama/Biden turns out to NOT have change...which I don't foresee, as you will have an entire group of new people who see the world differently with different visions.

And that "entire group of new people" would be who exactly? Biden isn't exactly "new,"

They are "new"....as Prez and VP.

They are changing offices, not parties. How is that going to change their worldviews?


New people will be in the administration. This will have a real impact on real people out living their lives in the sun, although perhaps it may not permeate the caves and inner psychosises of online conspiracy theorists.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sorry to be so cynical


Really?
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Tater



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Sorry to be so cynical


Really?


Laughing

I find it hard to believe that someone who writes on a website called "PrisonPlanet.com" is ever not cynical.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Tiger Beer wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Tiger Beer wrote:
If Obama/Biden turns out to NOT have change...which I don't foresee, as you will have an entire group of new people who see the world differently with different visions.

And that "entire group of new people" would be who exactly? Biden isn't exactly "new,"

They are "new"....as Prez and VP.

They are changing offices, not parties. How is that going to change their worldviews?


New people will be in the administration. This will have a real impact on real people out living their lives in the sun, although perhaps it may not permeate the caves and inner psychosises of online conspiracy theorists.

And just who are these "new people" that the online deluded see? Biden? Emmanuel?
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