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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: Where's Europe's Obama? |
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"This is the fall of the Berlin Wall times 10," Rama Yade, junior minister for human rights and France's only black government member, said in a radio interview. "America is a New World again. On this morning, we all want to be American so we can take a bite of this dream unfolding before our eyes."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,588923,00.html
An interesting short article on the state of ethnic minorities in Europe and their place in politics. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Although not a visible minority, how about Sarkozy? His father is from Hungary, a second generation French if you follow his father's side..
Anyways, I don't see Europe electing a visible minority as a leader for a few generations. Maybe a jew, but not a visible minority. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not really comfortable with these Europe vs. America framing of domestic issues. I don't know if Obama's rise indicates anything substantial about the social realities of the USA today, except that, unlike maybe 40 years ago, a majority of Americans won't automatically rule out a black candidate.
I agree that things aren't neccessarily any more egalitarian in accross the Atlantic, and the Obama victory can be a useful thing for Americans to rub in the faces of hectoring, self-righeous Euros over beer at the expat bar. |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Well, if the US can do, with its massive race relations problems, then so can Europe, with its also massive race relations problems.
C'mon Europe! Put up or shut up! |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Let us be brutally honest. Do you think Obama would have been elected if anyone other than BUSH had been in office over the past eight years? If the economic situation had been different? If the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had been going swimmingly? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Well, if the US can do, with its massive race relations problems, then so can Europe, with its also massive race relations problems.
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I didn't take the article as pointing a finger at Europe, even though it pointed out the current status of minorities, but more like the sentence above--pointing at the possibilities. What impressed me were the words of the people quoted: possibilities for the future. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
I agree that things aren't neccessarily any more egalitarian in accross the Atlantic, and the Obama victory can be a useful thing for Americans to rub in the faces of hectoring, self-righeous Euros over beer at the expat bar. |
Well in fairness much of the hectoring is a result of all the years the Euros had to listen to self-righteous Americans tell us Euros who great America was and that are dinky little countries were only free thanks to the US. |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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It isnt about whether theyre black or white though is it? It's if they are the best for the job. Or, seeing as it is politics, who will do the least damage and be the least corrupt.
The US has never had a female President have they? Even Pakistan, that Al-Qaeda hellhole has had a female PM. Well behind the times there on the gender equality. Blah blah blah blah blah boring. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| Ireland has had two female presidents which makes us way ahead on gender equality. We've also had an American as taioseach (prime minister), so suck on that. We obviously are the most tolerant nation in the world. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| blade wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
I agree that things aren't neccessarily any more egalitarian in accross the Atlantic, and the Obama victory can be a useful thing for Americans to rub in the faces of hectoring, self-righeous Euros over beer at the expat bar. |
Well in fairness much of the hectoring is a result of all the years the Euros had to listen to self-righteous Americans tell us Euros who great America was and that are dinky little countries were only free thanks to the US. |
The whole world thinks Brits and French are arrogant and pompous. So it can't just have been defensive self-righteousness.
I'm pretty sure (much) of the reason you heard that Europe was only free b/c of the U.S. is because of some prior arrogance and snobbery.
But at least for eight years your snobbery was deserved. But now with you all trying to form a Federalist unity, America is once again the model. |
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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Where's Europe's Obama? |
I think it's a valid point and one which will undoubtedly reverberate throughout the EU, hopefully raising and addressing questions of both inclusion and exclusion along the way. Who knows, maybe it'll inspire minorities the world over to engage more proactively in their respective political debates and processes.
However, as symbolic as the events of the past few days have been, I think it's both immature and premature to parade Obama as some sort of 'trophy' President elect on account of his ethnicity. Hopefully, finger-waving under the pretense of oneupmanship wasn't the reason so many choose to vote for him on Tuesday.
Last edited by BS.Dos. on Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:07 am; edited 2 times in total |
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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| The whole world thinks Brits and French are arrogant and pompous. |
Care to talk about what the 'whole world' thinks of America? |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| ... how about Sarkozy? His father is from Hungary, a second generation French if you follow his father's side... |
I never thought I'd see the French elect a president who wasn't French in my lifetime, and believe me, they don't think of him as truly French. He got the immigrant and minority vote just by virtue of where his family came from and his foreign name and he added to that the conservative vote based on his political platform.
That's what happens in an Obama World. |
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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
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^An interesting observation.
Obama might be black, but the institutional ideology he's stepping into is white. Which begs the question, how much change is possible? |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
Although not a visible minority, how about Sarkozy? His father is from Hungary, a second generation French if you follow his father's side..
Anyways, I don't see Europe electing a visible minority as a leader for a few generations. Maybe a jew, but not a visible minority. |
Not black though? Is he? Eh? Eh? |
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