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| Have you eaten dog soup? (boshintang) |
| Yes, tried it once |
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28% |
[ 23 ] |
| Yes, I have it sometimes |
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21% |
[ 17 ] |
| Not Yet |
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12% |
[ 10 ] |
| Not a chance |
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37% |
[ 30 ] |
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| Total Votes : 80 |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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 Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| hyalucent wrote: |
| wormholes101 wrote: |
Would it then be OK for me to eat my neigbour's dog who dislikes me and does nothing to help me? |
If a dog is not being useful, the problem is with the owner/trainer and not the dog. The dog still has the potential to be of value, but the owner has squandered it. In this case, it is the owner who is useless and should be eaten.
| wormholes101 wrote: |
And would it also be OK for me to eat mentally handicapped children who I do not consider to be good company and who do not work for me? |
Individual cases can differ from societal cases. I noticed that both your examples dealt with personal feelings of irrelevancy for the potential suppers, in spite of the fact that the dog and children no doubt have value to someone else. A person who only considers their own needs or pleasure would also risk wearing the "useless" tag when the revolution comes.
On the whole, I'd argue that society benefits more by having a partnership with dogs (and compassion toward the handicapped) even if this may not be the case on an individual level. |
Wouldn't you think that, throughout history, cows have been just as helpful to men as dogs have been? Not just as a source of food, I mean.
Also, where is the taboo against eating horse?
I think that your argument against eating dogs (or hawks) might otherwise be expressed as a taboo against eating carnivores. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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[/quote]And would it also be OK for me to eat mentally handicapped children who I do not consider to be good company and who do not work for me?[/quote]
NO. If you did, I would be missing a large percent of my Freshman English students. |
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Hyalucent
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: British North America
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| wormholes101 wrote: |
The above point that I would like to ask another question. Poodles and other useless dogs that don't aquire food: Would you find it morally repulsive to eat one of them? |
BTW Poodles were originally hunting dogs. I admit that some breeds of doghave been bred specifically to be used as food dogs. The aptly-named Chow Chow is supposed to one of these.
Let me give my personal stance on this, since I don't want to be quick to pass judgement on others. Personally, I would not eat a dog even if it was a breed specially bred for food. The differences between breeds, even between a Shitzu and a Great Dane, are small-- and they are largely the result of human breeders. Obviously such breeding is not done for the welfare of the dog, so I disagree with it fundamentally, and would not conspire to ingest the results.
I do support breeding of dogs to increase instinct, or to ween out genetic illness. |
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Hyalucent
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: British North America
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
Wouldn't you think that, throughout history, cows have been just as helpful to men as dogs have been? Not just as a source of food, I mean.
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Oxen are certainly useful, but they lack the companionship that a dog has given over as much as a hundred thousand years (possibly). So, I'm less inclined to voice a great deal of loyalty for them. With that said, it isn't as common to eat oxen or dairy cattle.
| Quote: |
| Also, where is the taboo against eating horse? |
I'll have to check into it. I think it was something I was reading from Wales back in the Roman occupation period. At any rate, my home town is horse country. The farmers there raise Percherons. You get a pretty nasty look if you suggest eating them.
| Quote: |
I think that your argument against eating dogs (or hawks) might otherwise be expressed as a taboo against eating carnivores. |
I was thinking that too. Certainly the lion's share of animals that people have reservations about eating, do take in a big proportion of carnivores. I've been considering it but I don't have a theory on that one yet. 
Does anyone know the nutritional differences between eating carnivores and herbivores?
On a side note, there's something to be said for eating animals that are bigger than you. Maybe it's some kind of primal power trip. I like mussels too, but I don't break into song over them the way I do for a nice, juicy moose steak. If I were to eat a dog, I don't think I could help but feel I was being a bit of a bully. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| hyalucent wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
Wouldn't you think that, throughout history, cows have been just as helpful to men as dogs have been? Not just as a source of food, I mean.
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Oxen are certainly useful, but they lack the companionship that a dog has given over as much as a hundred thousand years (possibly). So, I'm less inclined to voice a great deal of loyalty for them. With that said, it isn't as common to eat oxen or dairy cattle. |
I can't argue with that. There certainly is a "special relationship" that just does not apply to cattle for some reason.
| Quote: |
| Also, where is the taboo against eating horse? |
| hyalucent wrote: |
| I'll have to check into it. I think it was something I was reading from Wales back in the Roman occupation period. At any rate, my home town is horse country. The farmers there raise Percherons. You get a pretty nasty look if you suggest eating them. |
I can imagine....the sale of horse flesh for human consumption is now illegal in California, thanks to horse lovers. I was thinking more of Belgium and France though.
| Quote: |
I think that your argument against eating dogs (or hawks) might otherwise be expressed as a taboo against eating carnivores. |
| hyalucent wrote: |
I was thinking that too. Certainly the lion's share of animals that people have reservations about eating, do take in a big proportion of carnivores. I've been considering it but I don't have a theory on that one yet.
Does anyone know the nutritional differences between eating carnivores and herbivores? |
That's an interesting question. I've always thought that it is quite natural that herbivores are preferable as livestock, for any number of reasons. Seeing dog "farms" hereabouts has not changed that opinion.
| Quote: |
| On a side note, there's something to be said for eating animals that are bigger than you. Maybe it's some kind of primal power trip. I like mussels too, but I don't break into song over them the way I do for a nice, juicy moose steak. If I were to eat a dog, I don't think I could help but feel I was being a bit of a bully. |
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wormholes101
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| hyalucent wrote: |
| BTW Poodles were originally hunting dogs |
Anyway, I see you already got the point I was making when you stated that you wouldn't even eat a dog that was bred for eating purposes. i.e. was not bred for assisting humans in the hunt. In this way, you are actually nullifying your previous reason (that dogs can hunt with humans).
You then revert to your original premise (about dogs being companions) as a defence for eating cows i.e. cows are not companions.
While cows are not companions (generally speaking) neither are some dogs. You seem to attribute immunity to all dogs because some are companions.
This is not an attack on you. I'm exploring morality.
About the nutritional differences between herbivores and carnivores...
I remember that eating the livers of carnivores is dangerous whereas the livers of herbivores is OK. One of the great artic/antarctic explorers has great problems with that when they started eating the livers of their dogs... |
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Hyalucent
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: British North America
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| wormholes101 wrote: |
You seem to attribute immunity to all dogs because some are companions.
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Yes I do. A dog has a much greater intellectual capacity than a cow, even those bred for food. They also have greater tendencies to bond with humans than cows do. The fact that a dog does not become a companion, is more a reflection on the owner than it is on the potential of the breed.
Do owners have an obligation to befriend dogs? I tend to think that in light of the history of our two species, they do. I understand that's a very subjective opinion, but it is mine.
... and this isn't an attack on you either I'm just explaining the feelings and/or rationales behind my choice to abstain. |
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shawner88
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Enjoy your soup. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| shawner88 wrote: |
| Enjoy your soup. |
If the conditions in that photo are the criteria for foreswearing dog flesh, eggs shouldn't be eaten either. |
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shawner88
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| That doesn't make any sense. And dogs are not chickens. They are dogs. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| shawner88 wrote: |
| That doesn't make any sense. And dogs are not chickens. They are dogs. |
It would make sense to you if you knew how eggs were commercially produced.
OK...what I'm getting at is that laying hens at egg farms are confined in cages just as tightly as the dogs in that photo, and not just while in transit (as the dogs), but for their entire lives.
Your response seems to imply that it is OK to treat chickens that way, but not dogs. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
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Besides dogs are clever animals. The smarter the animal the worse it is to kill them for food.
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Well joo...pigs are actually smarter then dogs....so what about porky on your plate?
Shawner...that pic is silly...how about showing some cattle being tube fed in small enclosures where they can barely move and then saying "enjoy your steak"...  |
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Hyalucent
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: British North America
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:32 am Post subject: |
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http://jubileeacres.tripod.com/chicken.html
Something I am interested in getting into when I go back home is the raising of heritage breeds of chickens. The chickens you're talking about no longer have the ability to scratch or forage on their own and can't really even live outside those cages.
Heritage breeds don't produce as many eggs, or as much meat, but are much more viable on their own. (Read: easier to take care of). Plus they maintain a valuable link with the past.
There's also a question of genetic variety. Commercial chickens have very little variation. Diseases like the avian flu, if they ever reached a large scale, could theoretically wipe out the entire chicken population as we know it. |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Shawner...that pic is silly... |
[irony]Bloody Photoshop freaks How dare he fabricate evidence in order to criticize one tiny aspect of one tiny corner of Korean culture! Why, Confucius must be rolling in his grave! Besides, after all this time, he should have gone native by now and started writing death threats to Ohno!
*Pushes children and ajummas out of the way, runs across a busy highway without looking on the way to the squat pot.*
[/irony]
I don't think it's the pic that is silly. Perhaps the method of transporting / accomodating the "livestock" is silly. Or perhaps you could have said that Shawn's comment was silly (if that was your point). But don't decry the existence of the photo. |
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shawner88
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Those dogs are still alive during transport. They are drugged, stuffed in the cages, bones broken, whatever and wake up en route. |
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