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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| For the rest, just a bunch of wasted money they could have put towards education or a genuine asset. |
Like Cars or Computers or other electronics that Devalue faster than you can say "Depreciation"?
Guns are a solid investment. They are also collectors items. You have a distorted perception that people that own guns sit at home holding the gun just waiting for someone to break in.
Do you have objections against people who collect medieval weapons and Samurai swords?
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Its people like YOU who would blame firearms for someone's death, than blame the actual PERSON.
More people die from Traffic accidents than guns. Why don't you tell people to stop buying cars and put that money to better use?
Alcohol is responsible for more deaths than firearms, are you for another prohibition? |
I can't tell if this is satire or not. How can you say guns don't kill people but cars and alcohol do? I'm a pro-gun liberal BTW. However, extra guns yields tra gun deaths. it's simple economics. Yes, the gun didn't kill, the 8 year old with the gun killed. It's doubtful that a Honda or bottle of scotch would have had the same result. |
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blurgalurgalurga
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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I don't know the US laws so well, maybe somebody can set me straight on this.
1) My understanding was that all automatic rifles were illegal for private citizens. The AR-15's and Ak-47's are modified to be semi-automatic, and thus legal, but are still capable of firing a whole lot of ammo in a short time because they can pack a large magazine; hence their 'assault rifle' designation.
Is that correct?
2) Also--is it reasonable to assume that a competent gunsmith can re-work a semi-auto assault rifle so that it fires full auto?
3) One more question...what are the limits on magazine size? I think in Canada we can have only ten in the clip or something like that.
4) Are automatic pistols legal? If so, what's the magazine size?
Please set me straight on any misconceptions I may have. I meant to ask these questions in the gun thread but I forgot. |
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joshuahirtle27
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| For the rest, just a bunch of wasted money they could have put towards education or a genuine asset. |
Like Cars or Computers or other electronics that Devalue faster than you can say "Depreciation"?
Guns are a solid investment. They are also collectors items. You have a distorted perception that people that own guns sit at home holding the gun just waiting for someone to break in.
Do you have objections against people who collect medieval weapons and Samurai swords?
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Its people like YOU who would blame firearms for someone's death, than blame the actual PERSON.
More people die from Traffic accidents than guns. Why don't you tell people to stop buying cars and put that money to better use?
Alcohol is responsible for more deaths than firearms, are you for another prohibition? |
I can't tell if this is satire or not. I'm a pro-gun liberal BTW. However, extra guns yields tra gun deaths. it's simple economics. Yes, the gun didn't kill, the 8 year old with the gun killed. It's doubtful that a Honda or bottle of scotch would have had the same result. |
I"m pretty sure that if you mix the 2 (Honda and bottle of scotch) the likelihood of negative consequences rises dramatically. There's no spurious correlation there. The problem with having extra guns on the street or even in homes is that people do not store them properly in their homes, or use them for less than legal purposes. I like that I have a choice of which weapon I use to go hunting but my firearms are still locked, safeties on, disabled, and stored separately from the ammunition.
It's a sad thing that people die, it's a sad thing that 8 year olds find their parent's weapons and take them to school and kill their fellow students (usually by accident) but the other sad thing is that there are accessible weapons out there and as the world becomes more liberal it's okay for people to do what they want... which includes carrying guns. Making them more expensive will (in theory) make them less prevalent as even the black market traders will still have to make a profit and since the wholesale price will have to go up even street sales should go down. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| For the rest, just a bunch of wasted money they could have put towards education or a genuine asset. |
Like Cars or Computers or other electronics that Devalue faster than you can say "Depreciation"?
Guns are a solid investment. They are also collectors items. You have a distorted perception that people that own guns sit at home holding the gun just waiting for someone to break in.
Do you have objections against people who collect medieval weapons and Samurai swords?
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Its people like YOU who would blame firearms for someone's death, than blame the actual PERSON.
More people die from Traffic accidents than guns. Why don't you tell people to stop buying cars and put that money to better use?
Alcohol is responsible for more deaths than firearms, are you for another prohibition? |
How can you say guns don't kill people but cars and alcohol do? |
I was making the point that guns don't go walking off by themselves to kill people. Responsibility comes with gun ownership, just as responsibility comes with driving a car, or drinking alcohol.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/acc-inj.htm
2005 Accidental Deaths
Unintentional fall deaths
Number of deaths: 19, 656
Unintentional poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 23,618
Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 45,343
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_10.pdf
Deaths due to Firearms
Number of Deaths: 30,694
55.4 percent (suicide) and 40.2 percent (homicide)
More people die from falling, poisoning, and traffic than be homicide.
Firearm deaths and HIV/Aids in the US have one thing in common in the USA. People believe its MORE prevalent than it actually is.
Anyone who are so adamantly against guns should be more worried about Ladders and poison. |
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joshuahirtle27
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
I was making the point that guns don't go walking off by themselves to kill people. Responsibility comes with gun ownership, just as responsibility comes with driving a car, or drinking alcohol.
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EXACTLY
You forgot fans. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: |
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I was taught to shoot handguns by the age of 9. i hunted all through middle school. My point was not that guns should be banned. Almost no Americans believe this. My point was that the utility of stocking up on guns because Obama was elected is zero for almost everyone doing it, and it carries the definite risk of tradgedy. Since i believe it is irrational to stock up on guns, it follows that i believe the people doing this stocking up are irrational people. That the likelihood of a gun death is higher in an irrational household than in a rational household is an assumption.
Anyways, i've said my piece, but i didn't much like being painted with the "People like you..." brush. I blieve in responsible gun ownership. Do I believe an average 21 year old has the maturity to own a handgun? Absolutely not. That kind of maturity is usually only gained by the mid twenties or later. That there aren't more gun accidents and deaths is just a function of chance. Most of these crazy Korean drivers flying around corners with a red light don't hit anyone either. |
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joshuahirtle27
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
I was taught to shoot handguns by the age of 9. i hunted all through middle school. My point was not that guns should be banned. Almost no Americans believe this. My point was that the utility of stocking up on guns because Obama was elected is zero for almost everyone doing it, and it carries the definite risk of tradgedy. Since i believe it is irrational to stock up on guns, it follows that i believe the people doing this stocking up are irrational people. That the likelihood of a gun death is assumed to be higher in an irrational household than in a rational household is an assumption.
Anyways, i've said my piece, but i didn't much like being painted with the "People like you..." brush. I believe in responsible gun ownership. Do I believe an average 21 year old has the maturity to own a handgun? Absolutely not. That kind of maturity is usually only gained by the mid twenties or later. That there aren't more gun accidents and deaths is just a function of chance. Most of these crazy Korean drivers flying around corners with a red light don't hit anyone either. |
I hope you don't think I was painting you with that brush. It's refreshing to see someone who advocates responsible gun ownership. I, like you, have been taught from a young age that guns are not toys. The problem is people who AREN'T mature enough to do things do them... it's tragic. There will always be people who do things illegally and people who do things that are stupid or unnecessary (like take an automatic weapon into a hunting ground) and we have to deal with that. BUT if you take some of the accessibility of things away it (in throey) reduces the occurrences of negative consequences. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Gun control doesn't work, neither does drug control.
Obama knows Clinton's mistake in the 90s was going after guns. Hopefully he knows that. |
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Jeff's Cigarettes
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| joshuahirtle27 wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
I was making the point that guns don't go walking off by themselves to kill people. Responsibility comes with gun ownership, just as responsibility comes with driving a car, or drinking alcohol.
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EXACTLY
You forgot fans. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
My point was that the utility of stocking up on guns because Obama was elected is zero for almost everyone doing it, and it carries the definite risk of tradgedy. Since i believe it is irrational to stock up on guns, it follows that i believe the people doing this stocking up are irrational people. That the likelihood of a gun death is higher in an irrational household than in a rational household is an assumption.
Anyways, i've said my piece, but i didn't much like being painted with the "People like you..." brush. I blieve in responsible gun ownership. |
I apologize for grouping you in with other "guns are the whole problem, lets get rid of guns and there won't be any problems" people.
If people want to stock up on some guns now because they are afraid of legislation to ban certain firearms, then they should be allowed to. Its a free country.
To answer another poster on here:
A reputable gunsmith will NOT convert a semi auto to full auto. Doing so would be a felony. Anyone caught with a full auto weapon without proper Class 3 license is breaking a felony.
The ATF does NOT mess around when it comes to Full Auto weapons. Judges, courts, and District Attorneys don't mess around when it comes to possessing, modifying, or selling fully automatic weapons illegally. |
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joshuahirtle27
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Why would any civilian need a working fully automatic firearm? |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: |
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I believe that if you have semi-auto being held back by some technical restriction (and you are a responsible gun owner, whatever that may mean in the future) why wouldn't you want fully auto? because of some silly law? the history of america is that we don't obey laws we don't believe in.
If you aren't going to kill people, well then you won't. Don't let the pigs tell you what to do. |
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joshuahirtle27
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
I believe that if you have semi-auto being held back by some technical restriction (and you are a responsible gun owner, whatever that may mean in the future) why wouldn't you want fully auto? because of some silly law? the history of America is that we don't obey laws we don't believe in.
If you aren't going to kill people, well then you won't. Don't let the pigs tell you what to do. |
Um... I'll choose to say nothing about the part I bolded...
The reason the laws are in place to keep fully automatic weapons out of the hands of the general population is to protect them. Just because YOU wont kill someone with an AR-33 doesn't mean that the guy who breaks into your home and finds it wont. |
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Kenny Kimchee
Joined: 12 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
More people die from Traffic accidents than guns. Why don't you tell people to stop buying cars and put that money to better use?
Alcohol is responsible for more deaths than firearms, are you for another prohibition? |
Oh, not this old chestnut.
Cars are designed for transportation. Death is an an occasional unintended result.
Alcohol was created to let the good times roll. Death is an an occasional unintended result.
An AK-47 was designed to kill people. Death is the intended purpose. |
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joshuahirtle27
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Kenny Kimchee wrote: |
An AK-47 was designed to kill people. Death is the intended purpose. |
You do have to admit that very few properly maintained AK47's kill people when they are sitting on a table.  But I still say there's no need for a civilian to own one. |
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