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Tony (ATEK)
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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TheChickenLover
Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: The Chicken Coop
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 Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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ATEK is like the little boy that everone knows about who screams for attention and respect..but alas they have no real power & noone really cares about them.
ATEK is nothing but an emtpy shell with no power except over those who submit to their false sense of reality.
Chicken |
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talltony4
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Pipe down Chickenlover, noone is going to force you to join.
Tony, keep up the good work, I hope we hear more from you soon |
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kiwiana
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| I tried to email ATEK but their email function didn't work. Any ideas?? |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Look, it's okay to help ATEK if that's what you want to do. The general idea behind ATEK is still sound and it would benefit all of us if SOMEONE would be there for those who need information about dealing with some of the legal and monetary issues facing foreign teachers that others, like KOTESOL, so blithely ignore.
I just wish the ATEK leadership had listened to others a few months ago and gotten things better organized before making big promises in the newspapers. But, where's a time machine when we need one, eh? |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
Look, it's okay to help ATEK if that's what you want to do. The general idea behind ATEK is still sound and it would benefit all of us if SOMEONE would be there for those who need information about dealing with some of the legal and monetary issues facing foreign teachers that others, like KOTESOL, so blithely ignore.
I just wish the ATEK leadership had listened to others a few months ago and gotten things better organized before making big promises in the newspapers. But, where's a time machine when we need one, eh? |
I second this post. The intention is admirable but to this point its execution seems to have been poorly thought through. Not saying something worthwhile couldnt evolve over time, but I think it would take years to establish real credibility. Do the organizers have that kind of wherewithal?
Meanwhile as a longtermer here I remain to be convinced that ATEK has the expertise to adequately represent the concerns of a broad constituency. Young people coming to teach for a year or two, thats one thing, & they could use some organizational backing. But what does ATEK really have to offer to the many who have been here a while & are happy with their situations?
I'm pretty sure I dont want ATEK negotiating standardized conditions with the government on my behalf. Who are these ATEK people & why should I trust them?
Not saying they're wrong for trying to improve things, but I'd like to see some evidence that they have experience & knowledge of the system greater than many of those they propose to represent. |
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Tony (ATEK)
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| TheChickenLover wrote: |
ATEK is like the little boy that everone knows about who screams for attention and respect..but alas they have no real power & noone really cares about them.
ATEK is nothing but an emtpy shell with no power except over those who submit to their false sense of reality.
Chicken |
ATEK has never asked for attention or respect. We'll get the former when we launch and we'll garner the latter if we do a good job.
And I wholeheartedly agree that ATEK is currently an empty shell with no power whatsoever: it hasn't launched yet. |
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Tony (ATEK)
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
I second this post. The intention is admirable but to this point its execution seems to have been poorly thought through. Not saying something worthwhile couldnt evolve over time, but I think it would take years to establish real credibility. Do the organizers have that kind of wherewithal? |
There hasn't been any execution yet, specifically because it requires so much thinking-through. All of the ATEK organizers have been in-country for at least a couple years, and most are long-termers.
| schwa wrote: |
| Meanwhile as a longtermer here I remain to be convinced that ATEK has the expertise to adequately represent the concerns of a broad constituency. Young people coming to teach for a year or two, thats one thing, & they could use some organizational backing. But what does ATEK really have to offer to the many who have been here a while & are happy with their situations? |
Nobody will be convinced that ATEK can do (or is) anything until it actually does (or is) something. The proof is in the pudding, and we're still cooking it.
| schwa wrote: |
| I'm pretty sure I dont want ATEK negotiating standardized conditions with the government on my behalf. |
ATEK has no plans to negotiate "standardized conditions," contract stipulations, or anything else with the government or any other groups.
| schwa wrote: |
| Who are these ATEK people & why should I trust them? |
You won't really have a genuine answer to that question until a national council is elected and ATEK is handed off from the organizing board of directors to the first elected national council (composed of reps from around the country). At that time you'll see if the organizing board laid a good enough foundation for its house to handle the weather. |
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Tony (ATEK)
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiana wrote: |
| I tried to email ATEK but their email function didn't work. Any ideas?? |
If you could send me a PM with a description of what page you were on and what happened, I'll forward that to our webmaster, because that shouldn't be happening. You can also give me your email address and I'll personally forward it to the person who will contact you (which will likely be me anyway). |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| I used to be a political activists, and we faced all these naysayers, but, in the end, my group succeeded at doing what they wanted to do. I think it's possible if ATEK gets some visibility that it will gain members. I would consider joining but not right now. I have to figure out my job situation. I think us foreign teachers do need a voice not only for protecting us from predatory hagwons or what have you, but also to change visa laws, encourage the updating of old methods of teaching English. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Tony (ATEK) wrote: |
| schwa wrote: |
| t;]I'm pretty sure I dont want ATEK negotiating standardized conditions with the government on my behalf. |
ATEK has no plans to negotiate "standardized conditions," contract stipulations, or anything else with the government or any other groups.
[. |
Oh really? Let's take a look in this thread http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=116248&highlight=ATEK
(Capitals are mine for emphasis)
"ATEK aims to SOLVE difficulties and troubles that many foreign teachers now face" What are these troubles? "unpaid salaries, pensions, taxes, and health insurance, unsafe and inadequate housing arrangements, arbitrary changes to EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS and employers' refusal to provide letters of release as well as unfair banking practises"
And in that same thread I basically said 'Not a hope in Hades'. And as things stand now, it looks that I was correct.
ATEK isn't and has no plans to address a SINGLE one of these issues isn't that right?
So, what WILL ATEK do? From what I've been able to glean, they're going to be another on-line forum that will restrict itself to giving teachers (its members) advice...just like all the others. |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Would ATEK be against the TaLK program? |
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Tony (ATEK)
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Tony (ATEK) wrote: |
| schwa wrote: |
| t;]I'm pretty sure I dont want ATEK negotiating standardized conditions with the government on my behalf. |
ATEK has no plans to negotiate "standardized conditions," contract stipulations, or anything else with the government or any other groups.
[. |
Oh really? Let's take a look in this thread http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=116248&highlight=ATEK |
Yes, really. Nowhere in that thread does it say we'll be negotiating standardized conditions.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| So, what WILL ATEK do? From what I've been able to glean, they're going to be another on-line forum that will restrict itself to giving teachers (its members) advice...just like all the others. |
I've covered what benefits we'll be launching with before. The online forum is just one of them, and one of the least innovative, primarily because so many others exist. |
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Teelo
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I know php, and I'd be happy to help if I had a development system here... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony (ATEK) wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Tony (ATEK) wrote: |
| schwa wrote: |
| t;]I'm pretty sure I dont want ATEK negotiating standardized conditions with the government on my behalf. |
ATEK has no plans to negotiate "standardized conditions," contract stipulations, or anything else with the government or any other groups.
[. |
Oh really? Let's take a look in this thread http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=116248&highlight=ATEK |
Yes, really. Nowhere in that thread does it say we'll be negotiating standardized conditions.
[. |
It did say that one of the problems that ATEK was aiming to solve was "arbitrary changes to employment contracts". Sounds like "contract stipulations" to me. Kinda hard to stop arbitrary changes without them.
But that's not all. ATEK also wanted to solve unpaid salaries, pensions, taxes and health insurance, unsafe and inadequate housing arrangements, unfair banking practises...sure sounds like "standarized conditions" to me.
Anyway, when ATEK first came out it was touted as this wonderful union/association that would protect teachers' interests. Information gleaned from speaking to people involved in it, suggests it's been pared back to a glorified 'talking shop' Nothing wrong with that...but that is NOT going to change conditions one iota. Hakwons and public schools are under NO obligation whatsoever to listen to even one ATEK suggestion, in fact didn't a hakwon association already take a hostile stance against your group? |
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