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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| DCJames wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Creepy yes, but not as much as it appears.
First, he was not raised by his mother so the Westermarck effect, which normally operates to inhibit incest, could not take hold. Family members reared apart often find each other sexually attractive after meeting in adult life.
Then, "the issue of consent was not part of the charges." Intercourse occurred twice, after which the woman got up and went to her room. She did not call the police, and the incident was reported only because she happened to mention it during a routine medical exam the next day. Having been wheelchair-bound for the last seven years with rheumatoid arthritis, the woman may have been fulfilling sexual needs of her own. Indeed, had the male been a minor, she would be the one in jail right now, i.e. this was a sex act between consenting adults.
Finally, the incident may never have occurred were it not for the disinhibiting effect of alcohol as evidenced by his remorse when sober. |
You're nuts.
I feel sorry for you. |
haha. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| DCJames wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Creepy yes, but not as much as it appears.
First, he was not raised by his mother so the Westermarck effect, which normally operates to inhibit incest, could not take hold. Family members reared apart often find each other sexually attractive after meeting in adult life.
Then, "the issue of consent was not part of the charges." Intercourse occurred twice, after which the woman got up and went to her room. She did not call the police, and the incident was reported only because she happened to mention it during a routine medical exam the next day. Having been wheelchair-bound for the last seven years with rheumatoid arthritis, the woman may have been fulfilling sexual needs of her own. Indeed, had the male been a minor, she would be the one in jail right now, i.e. this was a sex act between consenting adults.
Finally, the incident may never have occurred were it not for the disinhibiting effect of alcohol as evidenced by his remorse when sober. |
You're nuts.
I feel sorry for you. |
Thanks, but I don't need your sorrow.
Are you able to verbalize with exactly what you take issue? |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| DCJames wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Creepy yes, but not as much as it appears.
First, he was not raised by his mother so the Westermarck effect, which normally operates to inhibit incest, could not take hold. Family members reared apart often find each other sexually attractive after meeting in adult life.
Then, "the issue of consent was not part of the charges." Intercourse occurred twice, after which the woman got up and went to her room. She did not call the police, and the incident was reported only because she happened to mention it during a routine medical exam the next day. Having been wheelchair-bound for the last seven years with rheumatoid arthritis, the woman may have been fulfilling sexual needs of her own. Indeed, had the male been a minor, she would be the one in jail right now, i.e. this was a sex act between consenting adults.
Finally, the incident may never have occurred were it not for the disinhibiting effect of alcohol as evidenced by his remorse when sober. |
You're nuts.
I feel sorry for you. |
haha. |
'haha' what? Where's the comedy, shitpidgeon? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| DCJames wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Creepy yes, but not as much as it appears.
First, he was not raised by his mother so the Westermarck effect, which normally operates to inhibit incest, could not take hold. Family members reared apart often find each other sexually attractive after meeting in adult life.
Then, "the issue of consent was not part of the charges." Intercourse occurred twice, after which the woman got up and went to her room. She did not call the police, and the incident was reported only because she happened to mention it during a routine medical exam the next day. Having been wheelchair-bound for the last seven years with rheumatoid arthritis, the woman may have been fulfilling sexual needs of her own. Indeed, had the male been a minor, she would be the one in jail right now, i.e. this was a sex act between consenting adults.
Finally, the incident may never have occurred were it not for the disinhibiting effect of alcohol as evidenced by his remorse when sober. |
You're nuts.
I feel sorry for you. |
haha. |
'haha' what? Where's the comedy, shitpidgeon? |
Justifying having sex with your mom is comical in my view. It's not with you? Sounds pretty insane in the membrane even for the flaming left of this board. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| or you would think the far right would own this issue. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| An incredibly naive chap wrote: |
In fact, nowhere except in your post is the word "rape" used, nor was he charged with it, but rather two counts of "having sex with a person knowing that the person was his mother." |
Unless he was actually charged and convicted of rape the newspaper is not going to call it rape. That is standard practice.
| Quote: |
| So while it may have been de facto incest, it is unlikely it was psychodynamic incest. In any event, it certainly does not appear to have been rape. |
You do not know if it was rape or not. In fact you have no idea - only fantasy guides you here. |
I will ignore the ad hominem in your post, and say that the fact remains that you, Big Bird, are the only one calling it "rape" here, not the article, not the courts, only you.
The pair are guilty of incest, not the man of rape. By conflating the two different issues, you do a disservice to the real victims of both. |
No Bcasper, you are really struggling with the written word, aren't you. I did not say it was rape. I do not know if it was rape or not. My point is that YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT SHE CONSENTED. Is that clear enough for you? Or is simpler clarification needed? Your evidence that she consented is nonsensical. The fact is, you simply can not know by reading that small article whether she consented or not. If I had to make a bet though, I would bet that she was absolutely horrified when her son pounced on her. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I assume he raped her. He was drunk and probably aggressive about it. She was confined to a wheelchair. Very unequal power relationship.
What evidence is there to even suggest that she consented? |
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DCJames
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
What evidence is there to even suggest that she consented? |
There is no evidence, absolutely none. It's just bacasper trying to throw his morals or lack of morals down peoples' throats.
For all the *beep* the moral right takes about trying to bully their moralism onto others, the progressive left types like bacasper do the same freaking thing. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| No Bcasper, you are really struggling with the written word, aren't you. I did not say it was rape. I do not know if it was rape or not. My point is that YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT SHE CONSENTED. Is that clear enough for you? Or is simpler clarification needed? Your evidence that she consented is nonsensical. The fact is, you simply can not know by reading that small article whether she consented or not. If I had to make a bet though, I would bet that she was absolutely horrified when her son pounced on her. |
Big Bird, you did not say it was "rape," but then proceeded to talk about it as if it were. The first mention of "rape" occurs in your post here twice:
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| How do you know it was consenting sex? That consent was not made an issue doesn't mean a thing. She may not have wanted her child charged with rape, even though he had violated her. There are no details of what she did, so your post is pure conjecture. She may very well have been horribly shocked and traumatised. She may have felt it was her fault in some way (a typical reaction of rape victims) doubly so because of her poor mothering. |
| Gopher wrote: |
| What evidence is there to even suggest that she consented? |
From the article, "the issue of consent was not part of the charges." Had she not consented, presumably he would have been charged with rape.
She got up and went to her room afterwards; she did not call the police. The incident only came to light because she happened to mention it the next day during a routine doctor's visit.
Now where is the evidence that she did NOT consent? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Bacasper: re: the mother's reported behavior, which does not include her articulating her emotions and motives: I imagine that her son's raping her traumatized and completely disoriented her, and created no small amount of conflict within her. Also, she reported this to her doctor, Bacasper. I believe that represents her asking him for help.
I can cite no evidence other than my own imagination to support this. But your demanding that I cite evidence that she did not consent to her son's having sex with her, even though he apparently raped her again sometime later, strikes me as a bizarre position to take, as even he seems to have recognized doing something completely wrong -- and it also sets up another of the impossible situations you seem to thrive in: demanding that your opponents prove a negative. I cannot do that, and I will not waste anymore time on this angle.
The leaves me where I started with this: what a terrible story. Where do they go as mother and son from here? Probably worse than losing a parent or a child to death. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Where do they go as mother and son from here? |
For starters, it's clearly well past time for the 26-year-old son to move out (or not to return following his incarceration).
Ferchrissakes, if I did something like that I think I would chop off my junk and join a monastery (and I'm not even religious). |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| No Bcasper, you are really struggling with the written word, aren't you. I did not say it was rape. I do not know if it was rape or not. My point is that YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT SHE CONSENTED. Is that clear enough for you? Or is simpler clarification needed? Your evidence that she consented is nonsensical. The fact is, you simply can not know by reading that small article whether she consented or not. If I had to make a bet though, I would bet that she was absolutely horrified when her son pounced on her. |
Big Bird, you did not say it was "rape," but then proceeded to talk about it as if it were. The first mention of "rape" occurs in your post here twice:
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| How do you know it was consenting sex? That consent was not made an issue doesn't mean a thing. She may not have wanted her child charged with rape, even though he had violated her. There are no details of what she did, so your post is pure conjecture. She may very well have been horribly shocked and traumatised. She may have felt it was her fault in some way (a typical reaction of rape victims) doubly so because of her poor mothering. |
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Still struggling with the conditional, I see. Don't worry, casper, most people get it eventually.
| Ignoramus wrote: |
| She got up and went to her room afterwards; she did not call the police. The incident only came to light because she happened to mention it the next day during a routine doctor's visit. |
You proffer this up as evidence that she consented? You are incredibly ignorant. Most rape victims do not report to the police the same day. This is a well known phenomen. Often they report much later, or not at all. Often they tell no-one and keep the terrible secret to themselves for years. You claim to know something of pyschology - but it is clear you are a poor student of your subject of interest. Incredible.
And you say 'She just happened to mention it to the doctor' - like you were in the room with her? And she just mentioned it casually? Like "Oh yesterday I went shopping, then I met my friend for lunch, then I went home and had sex with my son..." YOu have no idea of the context in which she informed the doctor. She may have been extremely distressed and sought help from the doctor.
Also, read this again:
| Quote: |
| "After the offender got off his mother she got into her wheelchair and went into her room," Justice Thomas said. |
After he GOT OFF HER she went to her room. Perhaps to get away from him? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| This is tabloid nonsense. Its not a proper current event. |
Relax, Mr. Holmes. It's a free forum, ya know? |
So if its a free forum, I'm free to express my opinion?
Then YOU relax. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| caniff wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| This is tabloid nonsense. Its not a proper current event. |
Relax, Mr. Holmes. It's a free forum, ya know? |
So if its a free forum, I'm free to express my opinion?
Then YOU relax. |
If I was any more relaxed I'd slip into a coma. Enjoy your Sunday.  |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| What a bizarre thread from start to finish. |
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