Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Kuros]

[mises]

That many civilians should not have been killed. Not in the Tokyo raids, not with the h-bombs. It is morally unacceptable, even in war.

[Kuros]

[mises]

Big bombs, regardless.

But I'm not a hippie. There is a strong difference between 1, 10, 100, and thousands of dead civilians. Babies, elderly, sick. Not just gun makers. Average people doing average things.

Leaving aside the good questions about the military necessity, which I am not going to start researching (though I remember from my undergrad days that a good debate exists) I wonder if a victory that required such an immoral and horrendous act (the fire bombings AND the atomic bombings) was worth having.

[NAVFC]

[NAVFC]

[NAVFC]

[mises]

Sure, then you just expand the target. A bomb factory in a city, blow the whole city to high hell.

[Manner of Speaking]

[Manner of Speaking]

The main reason why the atomic bomb was used on Japan, IMHO, is that in 1945 few decisionmakers had a good understanding of the aftereffects of radiation, and almost NO decisionmaker had any idea that the use of atomic weapons might lead to a nuclear arms race. They just wanted to end the war, period. One can hardly blame them.

If I were Truman in 1945, knowing then what he knew then...if I had to choose between a plausible estimate of over a million soldiers, American and Japanese, dead in an invasion - which by no means was guaranteed to be successful - and a weapon of mass destruction that might shock the Japanese into capitulation, I would have chosen the latter.

Even if an amphibious invasion had taken place, there is no reason to assume that Truman would NOT have also dropped the bomb on a Japanese city or two. If he thought it would have accelerated the end of the war, or increased the probability of a successful amphibious invasion during Olympic and Coronet.

[ddeubel]

Ok,

I'll take the bait.

Please answer my question in a practical and factual way.

Why was there any need to invade? (other than the need to control, dominate, subjugate).

There was an option and that was to do nothing. There was no threat to America at all. None whatsoever and even for years and years to come. The place was destroyed.

You guys have bought into all the hysteria and definitely are reading history wrong. What I'm not doubting is that under the climate of the times, most felt that this was the solution - bomb 'em. What I'm arguing is that they were wrong, governed my mass psychosis and hysteria and totally went down an immoral and evil path.

Why was there a need to invade? Where was the threat in Aug. 45?

DD
http://eflclassroom.ning.com

[T-J]

I think control dominate and most importantly subjugate were very real goals in 1945. Remember in 1945 it had only been 27 years since the horrors of WWI supposedly put an end once and for all to such horrific carnage brought about by nations bent on domination.

I think the powers of the time had the short 15 year peace in mind and were not about to let a wounded animal crawl back in its cave to lick its wounds and regain its strength.

This whole discussion is interesting in a Monday morning quarterback sort of way, but it really cannot be taken as a serious discussion until you accept that the world was a different place and the psyche of those making the decisions at the time were effected by the world they lived in.

It is easy to say that the taking of life is wrong, but when you really believe that it is your life and more importantly the lives of those that you are charged with defending and protecting on the line, your decision is not as black and white as it is sitting behind your computer.

[mises]

[Adventurer]

In my opinion, dropping a nuclear weapon on a city is terrorism on a massive scale. When you purposely target civilians it's a war crime.
People were outraged when Binladin killed non-military Americans on September 11th. Japan was losing the war. Japan knew that. The US could have negotiated with the emperor to stop its hostilities and to choose not to invade Japan, but the U.S. wanted to subjugate Japan.

[Kuros]