|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Far Right Commentator: Obama isn't Christian |
 |
|
The faith of Obama
| Joe Carter wrote: |
Christ is a divine being. From this interview it does not appear that Obama believes this is true:
| Quote: |
FALSANI: Who�s Jesus to you? (Obama laughs nervously)
OBAMA: Right. Jesus is an historical figure for me, and he�s also a bridge between God and man, in the Christian faith, and one that I think is powerful precisely because he serves as that means of us reaching something higher. And he�s also a wonderful teacher. I think it�s important for all of us, of whatever faith, to have teachers in the flesh and also teachers in history. |
This is, of course, exactly wrong. Jesus is not merely a "bridge" between God and man, Jesus is both fully-human and fully divine. Obama�s statement is more akin to something his role model Gandhi would say, rather than the claim made by an orthodox believer.
In fact, nowhere in the interview did I ever get the impression that Obama subscribes to even the most basic beliefs that are typically associated with being a Christian. |
Now, first of all, I think Obama's conceptions of heaven and hell are lucid interpretations of Dante. I don't think that his conception of heaven and hell are heretical at all. His conception of sin may be a bit more problematic, but I think we can let that slide.
But Obama's conception of Christ here may very well be a deviation from the Council of Nicaea. It would depend on what he meant by his words, as I could square what he actually said with a belief that Jesus is both God and man.
BTW, Culture 11 is a very cool online publication. I only call Joe Carter a Far Right commentator because of what he wrote in the comments section in response to a critic.
| Joe Carter wrote: |
| At first your self-righteous sanctimony was kind of amusing; now its just tiresome. For the past few weeks you�ve expressed your support of a candidate who wants to expand the slaughter of innocent humans. Yet you have the gall to chastise me for merely parsing his words and comparing them to the historical standard of what it means to be a Christian? I would suggest you repent, turn from your sin and walk again on the way of Jesus. |
Anyway, I found this all very interesting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joe Carter is clearly a tool. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greekvvedge
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: Apkujeong
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think that if most American Protestant Evangelicals were asked to explain their religion, they would do so in a manner that sounded in contrast to the council of Nicaea and traditional Christianity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| greekvvedge wrote: |
| I think that if most American Protestant Evangelicals were asked to explain their religion, they would do so in a manner that sounded in contrast to the council of Nicaea and traditional Christianity. |
That's an interesting theory. Someone should test that out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There are non-Trinitarian Christians.
"Siding with nontrinitarians, scholars investigating the historical Jesus often assert that Jesus taught neither his own equality with God nor the Trinity."
"for my Father is Greater than I [John 14:28]."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think we will find that Obama's faith is more like Oprah's. Where all paths lead to God. Jesus is only one of those paths.
How else could he justify abortion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sharkey
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| who cares if hes a christian, satanist, atheist, mormon , jew , arab, buddist, my god american politics needs to break away from religion, its pathetic how people area judged on their beliefs .... who gives a shit |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think it's Obama's interpretation of John 14:6 and maybe other verses. http://bible.cc/john/14-6.htm
Obama probably is a phony Christian (so is McCain), but we're not a theocracy anyway so it shouldn't matter. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bush was a pretty poor Christian too. Oh well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cheeseface
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Ssyangnyeon Shi
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sharkey wrote: |
| who cares if hes a christian, satanist, atheist, mormon , jew , arab, buddist, my god american politics needs to break away from religion, its pathetic how people area judged on their beliefs .... who gives a shit |
top post |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cheeseface wrote: |
| sharkey wrote: |
| who cares if hes a christian, satanist, atheist, mormon , jew , arab, buddist, my god american politics needs to break away from religion, its pathetic how people area judged on their beliefs .... who gives a shit |
top post |
Bullshit.
The things that a person believes will inform her or his decisions. If you believe fundamentally in islam or christaniaty you are unfit for leadership of anything but a dedicated Sunday flock. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
| cheeseface wrote: |
| sharkey wrote: |
| who cares if hes a christian, satanist, atheist, mormon , jew , arab, buddist, my god american politics needs to break away from religion, its pathetic how people area judged on their beliefs .... who gives a shit |
top post |
Bullshit.
The things that a person believes will inform her or his decisions. |
Of course it matters, but how much?
| Quote: |
| If you believe fundamentally in islam or christaniaty you are unfit for leadership of anything but a dedicated Sunday flock |
What does 'believe fundamentally' mean? Is that fundamentalist religion, or is that someone who believes, at the bottom of their heart, that Jesus is the son of God, and that means he should treat other people with care? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
Of course it matters, but how much?
| Quote: |
| If you believe fundamentally in islam or christaniaty you are unfit for leadership of anything but a dedicated Sunday flock |
What does 'believe fundamentally' mean? Is that fundamentalist religion, or is that someone who believes, at the bottom of their heart, that Jesus is the son of God, and that means he should treat other people with care? |
Nice try there. That's cheap. I could change that to believes than anyone who is not accepting of him in their lives is going to hell (or many other bad things).
I do agree that fundamentally is not descriptive enough for what he had wanted to say, though I understood his meaning none the less. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I meant fundamentalist ideas, of course. But Kuros's idea of "that someone who believes, at the bottom of their heart, that Jesus is the son of God" I think is also batshit crazy. Son of god. Kuros, do you know how stupid that sounds? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Of course it matters, but how much?
| Quote: |
| If you believe fundamentally in islam or christaniaty you are unfit for leadership of anything but a dedicated Sunday flock |
What does 'believe fundamentally' mean? Is that fundamentalist religion, or is that someone who believes, at the bottom of their heart, that Jesus is the son of God, and that means he should treat other people with care? |
Nice try there. That's cheap. I could change that to believes than anyone who is not accepting of him in their lives is going to hell (or many other bad things). |
How the hell is it cheap? Its my hypothetical. Make your own.
| mises wrote: |
| Kuros's idea of "that someone who believes, at the bottom of their heart, that Jesus is the son of God" I think is also batshit crazy. Son of god. Kuros, do you know how stupid that sounds? |
How is it relevant to governance? My hypothetical individual does not believe that God talks to him. Neither does he believe that he should separate Jesus' teachings with his context. This hypothetical individual has spent years studying politics and policy at a top school. This hypothetical individual embraces evidence and philosophical debate before making a decision. But yes, that person also believes that Jesus is the intermediary that allows man to have contact with God (and understands that Jesus is the intermediary and that one cannot talk to God directly).
Or let me put it this way. There's another individual, a voter, who has a litmus test for voting. That person refuses to vote for any candidate who believes Jesus is the son of God. Period. One issue voter.
I think the voter is the batshit crazy one, and is stupid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
