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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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 Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| samcheokguy wrote: |
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| isn't it pretty common knowledge that those who are the most vehemently opposed to homosexuality are actually repressed homosexuals themselves? and the reason it's so threatening is because they'd have to come to terms with the very part of themselves they've always hated - you know, that good ol' self-loathing and all. |
the only problem with this logic is it isn't logical. In fact it makes no sense. J. Edgar Hoover was not a secret communist. The Pope is not a secret Jew. Arabs are not secret Jews. Catholic Hard-Liners don't really want to abort. Koreans don't wish they were Japanese, they want to kill them.
Why does/should it be true for gays? Because it is a way around any debate on the subject. There are valid arguments AGAINST having sex and reproducing period. Not very good ones, but good enough for various peoples at various times. But anybody who says "I'm against hommosexuality" is in addition to being a bigot, also 'on the down low'. Seems a bit unfair. |
why are you making blanket statements that have absolutely no factual basis whatsoever? 
you think the pope hates jews? huh?
and that Arabs hate jews? huh? honey I've been to the middle east - and I'm assuming you meant moslem people since they are often blanketed to be "arabs" since it the language they speak  and no, there isn't a huge fever of "jew-hating" going around
and there are Ks who actually do like Jpn - believe it or not -
also, ahem, for the record, I said people who are the "most vehemently opposed."
others are just plain foolish, ignorant, biased, bigots, take your pick. |
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seosan08
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| moosehead wrote: |
isn't it pretty common knowledge that those who are the most vehemently opposed to homosexuality are actually repressed homosexuals themselves? and the reason it's so threatening is because they'd have to come to terms with the very part of themselves they've always hated - you know, that good ol' self-loathing and all.
yep. fully closeted, w/o a doubt  |
More propaganda, like the word homophobe! Do Koreans REALLY want these deranged creatures teaching their children?
Here is another example of propaganda:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66060
".........Frank Kameny, a hero to the homosexual community who was integral in pressuring the American Psychiatric Association to reclassify same-sex activities as "normal," has written to a pro-family organization that he believes bestiality is fine, "as long as the animal doesn't mind."
... Kameny also said there is no such thing as "sexual perversion."
...Kameny, now 83, said, "Bestiality is not my thing � But it seems to be a harmless foible or idiosyncrasy of some people. So, as long as the animal doesn't mind (and the animal rarely does), I don't mind, and I don't see why anyone else should.........."
Mod edited for language--keep it civil please.
Last edited by seosan08 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Why the strong anger for homosexuals? Can you explain it rationally? |
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Quack Addict
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| others are just plain foolish, ignorant, biased, bigots, take your pick |
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That's really mature. Your a typical douche bag, whiner who labels people stupid if they don't believe what you believe. Why do people even bother voting when crazy, knee jerk, bleeding heart liberals like yourself are just going to throw a hissy fit if it doesn't go your way?
How about you respect the opinions of others and understand that we live in a diverse world with different thoughts and ideas. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quack Addict wrote: |
How about you respect the opinions of others and understand that we live in a diverse world with different thoughts and ideas. |
No. Not when it comes to civil liberties. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quack Addict wrote: |
| Why do people even bother voting when crazy, knee jerk, bleeding heart liberals like yourself are just going to throw a hissy fit if it doesn't go your way? |
I very much sympathize with you on your take re: the liberals. But this particular issue is very simply a strict constitutional one and not an ideological one. The Fourteenth Amendment, which I believe goes to the heart of what America stands for, will inevitably reconcile this in favor of homosexual rights -- as it should. It is only a matter of time and there is no way around it. And this is good, Quack Addict, for all of us and especially for our future. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Quack Addict wrote: |
How about you respect the opinions of others and understand that we live in a diverse world with different thoughts and ideas. |
No. Not when it comes to civil liberties. |
Yup. And as Gopher mentioned, certain opinions go against our constitution. This is one of those circumstances.
Why do you care how two other people conduct their lives? It has no bearing on you whatsoever if every homosexual in this world got married. Your life would not change. Ok, you might be required to buy a few more wedding gifts, and if you are a business owner, might have to extend benefits to more employees' dependents. Beyond that? Not one iota. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| samcheokguy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| isn't it pretty common knowledge that those who are the most vehemently opposed to homosexuality are actually repressed homosexuals themselves? and the reason it's so threatening is because they'd have to come to terms with the very part of themselves they've always hated - you know, that good ol' self-loathing and all. |
the only problem with this logic is it isn't logical. In fact it makes no sense. J. Edgar Hoover was not a secret communist. The Pope is not a secret Jew. Arabs are not secret Jews. Catholic Hard-Liners don't really want to abort. Koreans don't wish they were Japanese, they want to kill them.
Why does/should it be true for gays? Because it is a way around any debate on the subject. There are valid arguments AGAINST having sex and reproducing period. Not very good ones, but good enough for various peoples at various times. But anybody who says "I'm against hommosexuality" is in addition to being a bigot, also 'on the down low'. Seems a bit unfair. |
All things considered, I can't help but think your choice of J. Edgar Hoover was a bit mischievous, as it is widely supposed that he was a secret homosexual. Come on, tell the truth ... this is bait, isn't it? |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| All things considered, I can't help but think your choice of J. Edgar Hoover was a bit mischievous, as it is widely supposed that he was a secret homosexual. Come on, tell the truth ... this is bait, isn't it? |
LOL! I thought he was going in a different direction at first. |
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samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| Hoover was a straight cross-dresser. Like most of them. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quack Addict wrote: |
| Quote: |
| others are just plain foolish, ignorant, biased, bigots, take your pick |
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That's really mature. Your a typical douche bag, whiner who labels people stupid if they don't believe what you believe. Why do people even bother voting when crazy, knee jerk, bleeding heart liberals like yourself are just going to throw a hissy fit if it doesn't go your way?
How about you respect the opinions of others and understand that we live in a diverse world with different thoughts and ideas. |
uh, that's sorta odd - it seems YOU'RE the one who doesn't respect diversity.
got to resort to name calling huh? can't come up with anything more intellectual than that? to call someone a douche bag? how original!!
the adjectives I used were accurate descriptions pertaining to those who are unable to reconcile the concepts that all humans are created equal and have basic human rights.
the nouns you are using are simple derogatory terms used when one hasn't an intelligent thought left and must resort to expelling filthy slang words to compensate for - a feeling of inadequacy - sexual, mental, or otherwise - take your pick. 
also ya' might wanta bone up on your reading comp - the word "stupid" simply isn't in my post - anywhere - at - all - |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| samcheokguy wrote: |
| Hoover was a straight cross-dresser. Like most of them. |
I'll grant that the evidence for his being queer is circumstantial, but it is compelling.
This excerpt from this website http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2423/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser has interesting things to say about both possibilities:
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But as a matter of fact, the alleged transvestitism of John Edgar Hoover, director of the FBI from 1924 until his death in 1972, has never been established, and reputable historians say it's an urban legend. The story probably got its start because of much more plausible rumors that J. Edgar was gay. He and his right-hand man, Clyde Tolson, were constant companions for more than 40 years, even vacationing together, and both remained lifelong bachelors. ...
The cross-dressing thing, however, is a definite no. |
The two are buried in side-by-side plots. As I said, circumstantial, but compelling.
The more interesting point in your original post, though, is that you seek to directly equate the "logic" that might govern one situation to every other situation.
I can, though, connect some of the dots from the examples you used. He was anti-communist because he felt communism was a direct threat to his way of life. That didn't make him a communist, you're right.
He wasn't, so far as I know, particularly anti-gay, though he did some nasty file work on known and suspected gays for the purpose of being able to control them through blackmail, if he needed to, politically. But, if he did mount any full-scale war on gays, I'm not aware of it.
The dynamic you take issue with (vehemently anti-gay types really being secret gays) needs a little clarification. The theory is not that they're secret (i.e., closet) gays, but latent gays, which means the secret they keep is one they keep even from themselves, and that their deeply held antipathy toward gay people is a means of defending against a direct threat to bullshit they feed themselves. A threat to their way of life, to the unconscious choice they make to keep from acknowledging this deeply buried part of themselves.
So there is some logic here, just not the simplistic kind your were trying to poke holes in. Hoover fought communism because it threatened his way of life, on a grand scale. SOME vehement homophobes fight gays and gay rights because to acknowledge that gays don't need to be fought against stands in direct opposition to what they fight within themselves, even if they can't/don't acknowledge that inner struggle.
On No Gay Day, I have profound doubts that any but the most out gay people will participate, which means its impact will be, at best, token. Closeted gays (myself included, here in Korea) probably won't risk it. Were I in America, I would have nothing to risk, because I wouldn't work in America for a company at which I had to be in the closet to keep my job. Cultural relativist that I am, I'll be at work December 10th. |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quack Addict wrote: |
| How about you respect the opinions of others and understand that we live in a diverse world with different thoughts and ideas. |
Pot, meet kettle.
Quack Addict, meet rational thought. Oh wait, why are you running away? |
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seosan08
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| samcheokguy wrote: |
| Hoover was a straight cross-dresser. Like most of them. |
More propaganda!
Mod edited for language--keep it civil please. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| moosehead wrote: |
| samcheokguy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| isn't it pretty common knowledge that those who are the most vehemently opposed to homosexuality are actually repressed homosexuals themselves? and the reason it's so threatening is because they'd have to come to terms with the very part of themselves they've always hated - you know, that good ol' self-loathing and all. |
the only problem with this logic is it isn't logical. In fact it makes no sense. J. Edgar Hoover was not a secret communist. The Pope is not a secret Jew. Arabs are not secret Jews. Catholic Hard-Liners don't really want to abort. Koreans don't wish they were Japanese, they want to kill them.
Why does/should it be true for gays? Because it is a way around any debate on the subject. There are valid arguments AGAINST having sex and reproducing period. Not very good ones, but good enough for various peoples at various times. But anybody who says "I'm against hommosexuality" is in addition to being a bigot, also 'on the down low'. Seems a bit unfair. |
why are you making blanket statements that have absolutely no factual basis whatsoever?
you think the pope hates jews? huh?
and that Arabs hate jews? huh? honey I've been to the middle east - and I'm assuming you meant moslem people since they are often blanketed to be "arabs" since it the language they speak and no, there isn't a huge fever of "jew-hating" going around
and there are Ks who actually do like Jpn - believe it or not -
also, ahem, for the record, I said people who are the "most vehemently opposed."
others are just plain foolish, ignorant, biased, bigots, take your pick. |
There are two primary psychological defense mechanisms which can explain this phenomenon we see over and over in those being most stridently opposed to homosexuality turning out to have the orientation themselves: reaction formation and identification with the aggressor.
There can be no doubt that the phenomenon occurs, and is not very rare. One only need look at all such cases we have seen, the most recent being that of Rep. Mark Foley who, within months of sponsoring the Adam Walsh Act which enhanced enforcement against soliciting minors over the internet, was forced to resign from Congress for soliciting male teens over the internet.
"Methinks he doth protest too much." |
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