Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Yu_Bum_suk]

I'm thinking particularly of their use with uncountable nouns. For instance in the sentence

'I eat a lot of / much fruit after dinner for dessert'

what rule explains why we only say 'a lot of' when we can say either 'I don't eat a lot of fruit' or 'I don't eat much fruit fruit'?

The same goes for 'a lot of' and 'many' with countable nouns. Why in the sentence

'I usually eat many / a lot of French fries'

would we say 'a lot of' when we could say either 'I eat a lot of things for breakfast' or 'I eat many things for breakfast' with a different noun?

[aerialsimulacrum]

..

[ajuma]

It has to do with count and non-count nouns but it's the difference between "much" and "many". You can use "a lot of" for anything. Much goes with non-count: much milk, much money. Many goes with countable: many clothes, many cookies, etc.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[sjk1128]

I think Koreans usually learn the rules really well. What they don't usually learn is that 'much' and 'many' sound wrong to many native speakers of English if they're used in informal settings. In general, both should be avoided in N.A. English if they are unmodified and in positive, informal sentences.

I have much money in the bank.
I have many books.

In both of these cases, N.A. English prefers "a lot of" in informal, casual speech and writing but

Much money was earned by all in the fortuitous business venture.
Schoolchildren read many books in the 19th century that are now banned.

both seem okay, especially if they're written or if the speaker is giving a speech. Like everyone else said, in negative, interrogative, or modified cases the normal rules present no problems:

I don't have much money.
Do you have much money?
There is oh-so-much I could say about this, but I'll shut up now.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[Cornfed]

Does it really matter? It isn't technically wrong to use "much" when most speakers would use "a lot of". You often see this form in literature. Why not just point out that most speakers use "a lot of" and leave it at that.

[jadarite]

Because we group fries, we don't talk about each one individually or add them. I am sure there is some gray area in that rule, but I think that's the general idea.

Another way to look at it is with abilities or comparisons.

"There are too many hamburgers, I cannot eat them all."

We wouldn't say, "There are a lot of hamburgers", but it is grammatically ok.

[sjk1128]

To my knowledge, there is no firm rule. It only has to do with the language level, that is if people see the setting as more formal or more informal.

Certainly, in casual conversation, they both sound very strange:

A: What are you doing tonight?
B: Well, I have much money because I just got paid, so I'm going shopping!
A:What are you going to buy?
B: Oh, I don't know. I guess I will buy many things.

But, again, if the language feels formal, or "high level," then they're okay.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

Could it also have to do with whether the plural noun refers to one type of things or many types of things - e.g. 'I ate many things for breakfast. To start I ate much bread and many cereals'. The first use of many sounds normal, but the next much and many sound like an EFL student.

[jajdude]

Why wouldn't we say, "There are a lot of hamburgers"?

[jadarite]

[loose_ends]

This is how I teach it.

much/many for - statements, questions, and +/- statements where a much/many expression is used.

- statement. I didn't each much soup
? question. Did you eat much soup?
+/- espression. I ate so much soup.

we usually don't use much/many with + statements.

a lot of/lots of is used for everything. it can never be wrong, essentially.