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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Css
Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Location: South of the river
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Yes I do believe its simply laziness. I do not believe its any kind of intended dishonesty or deception.
Governments, or rather police forces and the judiciary of all countries cannot be everywhere at once. In the scheme of things, a very small number of foreign english teachers getting some unpaid holidays is pretty far down on the list of priorities.
If the crimes were taken to the relevant body, then they I believe they would be dealt with correctly...but as you said, for whatever reason, its sometimes difficult for teachers to take these matters to the courts. However, if they arent brought to the attention of the courts by the victims, how is anything ever going to get done? How are the authorities even going to be made aware?
Thats why i dont believe it to be corruption..
If your boss is doing something illegal, and you take it to the relevant authorities, i believe 100% that it will be dealt with according to the law. |
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Ilsanman

Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Location: Bucheon, Korea
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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I hear ya, bro.
I am totally opposite of Adventurer. I have had great luck with jobs, save a few. I have had rotten luck with the locals. I have a broken finger now because of a drunken man who wanted to pat me on the head and touch my wife and daughter. I had a broken elbow before and had to go through the medical system here, which I can tell you from personal experience is a total joke.
The police are a joke too. When this court case is settled, I will be letting everyone on here know what happened.
Almost everyday, I get some high school punk mouthing me off for no reason better than me waiting at a bus stop.
I used to love this place, but not anymore. Any good feelings I had before have been squeezed out. Even my wife is getting this way, after she sees the way I get treated. |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Css wrote: |
Yes I do believe its simply laziness. I do not believe its any kind of intended dishonesty or deception.
Governments, or rather police forces and the judiciary of all countries cannot be everywhere at once. In the scheme of things, a very small number of foreign english teachers getting some unpaid holidays is pretty far down on the list of priorities.
If the crimes were taken to the relevant body, then they I believe they would be dealt with correctly...but as you said, for whatever reason, its sometimes difficult for teachers to take these matters to the courts. However, if they arent brought to the attention of the courts by the victims, how is anything ever going to get done? How are the authorities even going to be made aware?
Thats why i dont believe it to be corruption..
If your boss is doing something illegal, and you take it to the relevant authorities, i believe 100% that it will be dealt with according to the law. |
One fellow has been in the court system for 2 years. He still didn't get his money. Hagwon owners do have friends in government, they do give them cash envelopes. It's not simply laziness going on in Korea. Some officials will be honest and do everything in their power to help you. It does happen. My point is breaking the law wouldn't be so common if corruption wasn't such a serious problem. |
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jkelly80

Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Location: you boys like mexico?
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Css wrote: |
Yes I do believe its simply laziness. I do not believe its any kind of intended dishonesty or deception.
Governments, or rather police forces and the judiciary of all countries cannot be everywhere at once. In the scheme of things, a very small number of foreign english teachers getting some unpaid holidays is pretty far down on the list of priorities.
If the crimes were taken to the relevant body, then they I believe they would be dealt with correctly...but as you said, for whatever reason, its sometimes difficult for teachers to take these matters to the courts. However, if they arent brought to the attention of the courts by the victims, how is anything ever going to get done? How are the authorities even going to be made aware?
Thats why i dont believe it to be corruption..
If your boss is doing something illegal, and you take it to the relevant authorities, i believe 100% that it will be dealt with according to the law. |
Well obviously this isn't the case or the US State Dept wouldn't have a warning about shady hagwon owners. Shady, not lazy. |
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seosan08

Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Location: Korea
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Uni's can be just as bad. A good example is Kyungnam Uni in Masan for the last 10 years or so. It may have gotten better, but I doubt it!
jkelly80 wrote: |
Css wrote: |
Yes I do believe its simply laziness. I do not believe its any kind of intended dishonesty or deception.
Governments, or rather police forces and the judiciary of all countries cannot be everywhere at once. In the scheme of things, a very small number of foreign english teachers getting some unpaid holidays is pretty far down on the list of priorities.
If the crimes were taken to the relevant body, then they I believe they would be dealt with correctly...but as you said, for whatever reason, its sometimes difficult for teachers to take these matters to the courts. However, if they arent brought to the attention of the courts by the victims, how is anything ever going to get done? How are the authorities even going to be made aware?
Thats why i dont believe it to be corruption..
If your boss is doing something illegal, and you take it to the relevant authorities, i believe 100% that it will be dealt with according to the law. |
Well obviously this isn't the case or the US State Dept wouldn't have a warning about shady hagwon owners. Shady, not lazy. |
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jkelly80

Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Location: you boys like mexico?
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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I can't find the article, but I know a few weeks ago it came out that the head of Education in Seoul was caught taking loans (billions of won, I think) from the Jongno Hagwon, which conveniently avoided any hagwon crackdown. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Such bad jobs could be avoided by speaking to current and/.or former employees....I'm susprised how many people didn't do their research before coming..... |
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hugekebab

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Korea has lots of backward aspects to it.
The employment situation here is borderline untenable, due to their hierarchical 'shit drops down' system.
The visa rules are horrific.
Koreans are generally pretty racist.
The people here are often quite cold, yet warm on the surface.
Friendship seems to be a matter of utility for many Koreans; especially international friendships.
The food is poor, but they think it's amazing.
However, there are positives; lots of them.
It is the safest place I have ever lived (apart from the traffic!)
The living cost and money situation here are brilliant; there is zero money stress; you are never living on the borderline of poverty.
The experiences here are weird! The novelty of this does wear off after about 6-9 months.
The teaching community can be pretty tight knit (but is also full of whack jobs.)
The weather is brilliant outside of summer. It has barely rained in the last 2 1/2 months.
Try and look at the bottom list, not the top. Either that or move on where you have more visa freedom e.g. Taiwan/Japan/Europe (if you are European) |
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jkelly80

Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Location: you boys like mexico?
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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^
I agree with your positives and negatives, except for the food. I think the food here is great, but they're wayyyyy too protectionist about it. As good as it is, I can't eat it 21 meals a week. A 10% VAT on a Middle Eastern Restaurant? Give me a break.
I've never seen a country so hung up on its own culture. |
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Cheonmunka

Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a married guy, two kids, Korean wife, long term ressie, studied in Korean etc. I tell yah, if I were single my experiences would be much wierder than now - so I reckon I gotta hand to you guys.
One thing though, you are teachers here. In the US you could be teachers, too, and earn the same money - if not more. I guess with tax high and housing there's a difference there, and it feels like one is traveling. To me though, those differences are slight.
Maybe it's more like Westies are drawn to the Orient, like I was. Like a dream from the past or something ... or the Playboy centerfold of the Asian chick I saw when I were a boy ...
In which case, nothing about people's personalities is going to take a new traveller here away from his wee dream. Then one day reality will hit in and will realise that though things appear different there is not a lot between the West and here when it comes to shady people and rip offs. Just a different way of going about it. |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Ukon wrote: |
Such bad jobs could be avoided by speaking to current and/.or former employees....I'm susprised how many people didn't do their research before coming..... |
A person looking to get their severance may not give you a lot of information. You should consider that. He might say they pay you on time and you get your health insurance and other staff and not really mention the major problems. I talked to this one guy on the phone lately, and there was no way I could get information from him I felt. Anyway, I decided to pass on that job.
Of course, I do ask to speak to other foreigners. Otherwise, I don't bother with the job. It's not so simple to look for a good hagwon job, and you know looking for jobs is time consuming. There are tons of jobs, but many of them are shyte, and we have to keep that fact in the back of our minds as you know. I would like to find a good six-seven month gig. I may work with a former co-worker. I will make up my mind soon.
You are correct many bad jobs can be avoided if we speak to the foreign staff. |
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Css
Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Location: South of the river
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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jkelly80 wrote: |
[
Well obviously this isn't the case or the US State Dept wouldn't have a warning about shady hagwon owners. Shady, not lazy. |
We arent talking about hagwon owners. |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Css wrote: |
jkelly80 wrote: |
[
Well obviously this isn't the case or the US State Dept wouldn't have a warning about shady hagwon owners. Shady, not lazy. |
We arent talking about hagwon owners. |
Corruption has to do with how those in the private sector and the public sector are in cahoots with each other to violate the laws of the country, and it does affect so many of us foreigners. The passing of envelopes, the lack of oversight. It's not simply laziness. Korea is very well-known for the passing of white envelopes. That was common in Singapore say in 1959, but they stamped it out. It is simply easier to exploit foreigners, and the government is responsible for such exploitation occuring on a large scale to foreign workers and English teachers. Of course, we are in heaven in comparison to the former. We can easily do midnight runs. They can't. That's the situation. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Dude why don't you just head back home or elsewhere? And I don't say that in a "hate it then get out" sense. I enjoyed Korea until I didn't. And then I left. If you aren't enjoying it, leave! It is a big beautiful world. Places to go, people to see... |
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Bramble

Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Location: National treasures need homes
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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JongnoGuru wrote: |
It's like an amalgamation of Jinju and .... I'm not sure who. One of any number of snotty trolls we've seen. |
I think you're right. Remember how Jinju and DW both used to omit apostrophes (dont, wont, cant, etc.)? |
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