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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
| adeline wrote: |
| I also don't think this is just a bunch of whiney babies. Racism in any country is an incredibly important issue, whether it is the actual denial of rights or a more social issue. Do you think that minorities who weren't showed certain neighborhoods by realtors were just whining when they sued? Sure they could have just lived with it. Lots of racism you can survive with, but it doesn't make it right, or mean that you should. Anyways, I have read numerous articles on how racism and foreigner violence are getting increasingly worse in Korea in these bad economic times (a common trend). Of course these acts will mostly be directed at the unskilled worker set, south asians and other minorities, rather than the english teaching set, but it is something that is very worrying to me and if the economy doesn't turn around, things could get very bad. |
I mean it's whiny what most foreigners complain about...aside from the interracial dating stigmas, most of what people are complaining about are downright silly or Insignificant.
They stare...no **** sherlock....trying being someone who looks out of the norm back home....they stare too...they're just more subtle about it.
I can't get into Korean nightclubs....many places in asia will kick you out of these night clubs...I've hear of similar stories in China and japan. This isn't jim crow in the 1960's south where I couldn't go to "nice places".
Banks won't don't ____- It's becuase red tape and we have no precedent....we make up such a tiny component of the population that they probaly didn't even bother to create banking for foreigners as a priority...not becuase the CEO of Hana bank laughs at your pathetic attempts to get a International debit card. |
Once again, nobody on this thread has complained about staring. Sure, it can get annoying sometimes to be looked at all the time, however I wouldn't and haven't classed that as discrimination, and nor was it the subject of my original post.
No this isn't the American Deep South in the '60s....sorry, did I miss something, is there some sort of critical mass point which, until it's reached, does not allow for the discussion of racism? Sure, the law doesn't mandate that I am not allowed to go into these places...but to all intents and purposes it may as well if the businesses themselves operate such policies.
And just because other countries treat foreigners racistly as well, that sure doesn't excuse those who are racist to others here in Korea. Banking - correct me if I'm wrong - has not been brought up on this thread and therefore I am not about to introduce it.
Once more to reiterate Ukon - this thread is not here to whine and complain, nor has anybody done so; it is here, once again, to talk about racism in Korean society (which undeniably exists), whether it is getting better or worse, and why people think that is. Of course people will bring to the discussion their own anecdotal evidence...heck that's how I begun this thread...but that doesn't mean that they are whining. |
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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
| adeline wrote: |
| I also don't think this is just a bunch of whiney babies. Racism in any country is an incredibly important issue, whether it is the actual denial of rights or a more social issue. Do you think that minorities who weren't showed certain neighborhoods by realtors were just whining when they sued? Sure they could have just lived with it. Lots of racism you can survive with, but it doesn't make it right, or mean that you should. Anyways, I have read numerous articles on how racism and foreigner violence are getting increasingly worse in Korea in these bad economic times (a common trend). Of course these acts will mostly be directed at the unskilled worker set, south asians and other minorities, rather than the english teaching set, but it is something that is very worrying to me and if the economy doesn't turn around, things could get very bad. |
I mean it's whiny what most foreigners complain about...aside from the interracial dating stigmas, most of what people are complaining about are downright silly or Insignificant.
They stare...no **** sherlock....trying being someone who looks out of the norm back home....they stare too...they're just more subtle about it.
I can't get into Korean nightclubs....many places in asia will kick you out of these night clubs...I've hear of similar stories in China and japan. This isn't jim crow in the 1960's south where I couldn't go to "nice places".
Banks won't don't ____- It's becuase red tape and we have no precedent....we make up such a tiny component of the population that they probaly didn't even bother to create banking for foreigners as a priority...not becuase the CEO of Hana bank laughs at your pathetic attempts to get a International debit card. |
Your third paragraph is fail. Korean banks belong to the same standard bodies that every insured bank on Earth belongs to. They have guidelines. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr-Dokdo wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| earthbound14 wrote: |
I've heard many similar comments about South East Asia. It's really messed up considering how many Japanese people still spew such filth about Koreans. Koreans hate it, yet many openly do it to other cultures.
I don't understand how they can't put two and two together. |
Here is what one Japanese politician said about Koreans:
To say �The Japanese dislike Korean� has been a taboo for a long time. This is the scene from Japanese TV program at Prime time, and this TV program has popularity among Japanese. The Japanese diet member Nishimura Shingo said �The Japanese dislike Korean� with courage, this word could have been shared among most Japanese people. Korean people�s character are utterly different from Japanese people�s. Korean often break promise without hesitation�and they often tell lies, but they don�t have sense of sin at all. We Japanese should not trust Korean people. They do any dirty thing in order to accomplish their own goal. It is very dangerous to trust Korean people.
[ur=http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=499]NIPPON[/url]
Is this what many Japanese folks actually think? I know racism is pretty overt in both Korea and Japan. It's not like they have PC type people out there pushing their agenda. I was impressed when the Korean Government was trying to encourage acceptance of bi-racial children. |
I do not think the Japanese dislike Koreans. I think they came here to help Koreans uplift themselves but were forced to engage in some rather unfriendly activities. But what to do when face with the rough-and-ready, soju-swilling, rabble? Only stern discipline could help in such tough situations. |
You mean that the Japanese had Korean allies, but not everyone liked the Japanese and people revolted, so those that revolted were punished, and it wasn't fun to be under occupation.
As far as the Japanese and Koreans, they together remind me of how some people in the North look at people from the South in the U.S.
The Northerners are generally more developed when it comes to education, technology and what have you and sometimes look down on the South, and the South tries to go behind cultural and spiritual type superiority and say the Yankees are corrupt people who repressed them and weren't fair to them.
Individualism is also less accepted in the South than in the North. More people like dark beer in the North than in the South. One major difference is people in the South are more true to the Bible in some ways and many people from the US South are known for being straight-shooters and honest, but that's not the view many people from Asia and the West have about Korea if they've been exposed to the country. It might be a closed-minded way of looking at the country, but so many have been burned in this said country. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
| adeline wrote: |
| I also don't think this is just a bunch of whiney babies. Racism in any country is an incredibly important issue, whether it is the actual denial of rights or a more social issue. Do you think that minorities who weren't showed certain neighborhoods by realtors were just whining when they sued? Sure they could have just lived with it. Lots of racism you can survive with, but it doesn't make it right, or mean that you should. Anyways, I have read numerous articles on how racism and foreigner violence are getting increasingly worse in Korea in these bad economic times (a common trend). Of course these acts will mostly be directed at the unskilled worker set, south asians and other minorities, rather than the english teaching set, but it is something that is very worrying to me and if the economy doesn't turn around, things could get very bad. |
I mean it's whiny what most foreigners complain about...aside from the interracial dating stigmas, most of what people are complaining about are downright silly or Insignificant.
They stare...no **** sherlock....trying being someone who looks out of the norm back home....they stare too...they're just more subtle about it.
I can't get into Korean nightclubs....many places in asia will kick you out of these night clubs...I've hear of similar stories in China and japan. This isn't jim crow in the 1960's south where I couldn't go to "nice places".
Banks won't don't ____- It's becuase red tape and we have no precedent....we make up such a tiny component of the population that they probaly didn't even bother to create banking for foreigners as a priority...not becuase the CEO of Hana bank laughs at your pathetic attempts to get a International debit card. |
Your third paragraph is fail. Korean banks belong to the same standard bodies that every insured bank on Earth belongs to. They have guidelines. |
So wait, all banks on earth have agreed to a universal standard in regards to dealing with foreign nationals on varying visa standards? I never knew! |
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livinginkunsan
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
So wait, all banks on earth have agreed to a universal standard in regards to dealing with foreign nationals on varying visa standards? I never knew! |
Maybe not, but they do have unified rules (not based on the tellers mood or the banks desire to deal with non nationals)
ps.
Koreans can get an international banking card (and account) on a travelers visa in Canada |
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MikeGrey
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah. That's pretty annoying.
My students asked me if my girlfriend back home was black. Someone shouted "no!", and I said that's not something you should ask and she apologized.
So has someone compiled a list of westerner stereotypes that koreans believe? For some reason they all ask me about if I eat fried chicken. Which is funny because in america... well anyway.
| I'm no Picasso wrote: |
You wanna get screamed at for smoking on the street, try being a woman while you do it. Try watching your male coworkers go in and out of the "men's" teachers' lounge, wafting fresh cigarette smoke into your face with every swing of the door while you're stuck chewing on a pen cap for nine hours.
Do we all get treated like freaks to some extent for being anything other than Korean? Yes. Would I compare it to the racism that anyone who isn't white deals with while they are here? Hell no. More times than not, at least in my experience, it's not malicious or even necessarily condescending -- it's just confusion and fascination. And, on the good days, easy enough to laugh off. It's completely different from the total disdain and out-and-out terror I've seen displayed by some otherwise very intelligent and pleasant Koreans toward black people. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
| adeline wrote: |
| I also don't think this is just a bunch of whiney babies. Racism in any country is an incredibly important issue, whether it is the actual denial of rights or a more social issue. Do you think that minorities who weren't showed certain neighborhoods by realtors were just whining when they sued? Sure they could have just lived with it. Lots of racism you can survive with, but it doesn't make it right, or mean that you should. Anyways, I have read numerous articles on how racism and foreigner violence are getting increasingly worse in Korea in these bad economic times (a common trend). Of course these acts will mostly be directed at the unskilled worker set, south asians and other minorities, rather than the english teaching set, but it is something that is very worrying to me and if the economy doesn't turn around, things could get very bad. |
I mean it's whiny what most foreigners complain about...aside from the interracial dating stigmas, most of what people are complaining about are downright silly or Insignificant.
They stare...no **** sherlock....trying being someone who looks out of the norm back home....they stare too...they're just more subtle about it.
I can't get into Korean nightclubs....many places in asia will kick you out of these night clubs...I've hear of similar stories in China and japan. This isn't jim crow in the 1960's south where I couldn't go to "nice places".
Banks won't don't ____- It's becuase red tape and we have no precedent....we make up such a tiny component of the population that they probaly didn't even bother to create banking for foreigners as a priority...not becuase the CEO of Hana bank laughs at your pathetic attempts to get a International debit card. |
But you don't seem to get it. In the west, if you were routinely denied access to certain clubs or denied jobs or services solely because of your race at the rate you could be here, you'd be able to retire off the lawsuit windfalls. You sure won't here because nobody cares enough about racism you may experience. |
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amandaz
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my indian and middle eastern friends about racism in korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money |
Meh, good for you, but I'm also black and have experienced plenty of open racism here. |
I teach at an all boys middle school and today I did a lesson on Barack Obama. They all know who he is of course, but I just had them read an article about him and answer some questions. The last question was "Do you like Obama. Why or why not?"
Most of the kids said yes or so-so but some of them said no. Why? Because has black face. All of the students who said not said no because he is black. I even made them elaborate on that and explained that it doesn't matter what skin color you have, but they weren't really buying it. For kids to have that kind of opinion about a famous black person, they must have heard it at home. In other words, there are racists in Korea, for sure! |
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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| amandaz wrote: |
| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my indian and middle eastern friends about racism in korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money |
Meh, good for you, but I'm also black and have experienced plenty of open racism here. |
I teach at an all boys middle school and today I did a lesson on Barack Obama. They all know who he is of course, but I just had them read an article about him and answer some questions. The last question was "Do you like Obama. Why or why not?"
Most of the kids said yes or so-so but some of them said no. Why? Because has black face. All of the students who said not said no because he is black. I even made them elaborate on that and explained that it doesn't matter what skin color you have, but they weren't really buying it. For kids to have that kind of opinion about a famous black person, they must have heard it at home. In other words, there are racists in Korea, for sure! |
Exactly; what makes the racism here so obvious, especially in the case of kids is that they have no where else to even form an opinion except from their parents (not even their peers, even though their peers may self-reinforce it). |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| amandaz wrote: |
| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my indian and middle eastern friends about racism in korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money |
Meh, good for you, but I'm also black and have experienced plenty of open racism here. |
I teach at an all boys middle school and today I did a lesson on Barack Obama. They all know who he is of course, but I just had them read an article about him and answer some questions. The last question was "Do you like Obama. Why or why not?"
Most of the kids said yes or so-so but some of them said no. Why? Because has black face. All of the students who said not said no because he is black. I even made them elaborate on that and explained that it doesn't matter what skin color you have, but they weren't really buying it. For kids to have that kind of opinion about a famous black person, they must have heard it at home. In other words, there are racists in Korea, for sure! |
Why don't I find that shocking? Again, I say Korea is like Appalachia with nice gadgets, but it's easier to know where you stand with people from Appalachia when it comes to jobs and what's what. I taught a girl once who lived in Malaysia before, but she wasn't very open-minded even after living in Malaysia for a year or two. She said she thought the dark-skinned people are dirty. Basically, Archie Bunker type attitudes are so prevalent. Basically, the woman who talked about Obama to McCain is much more common in Korea than in the U.S. You will have children in the US who think like those Korean kids. A friend of mine had a sister who taught in a rural area in Texas. The kids made fun of the fact that the teacher had a swarthy Greek husband. The difference between the US and Korea in one major respect is we have political correctness and a preaching of tolerance. That's only started to happen in Korea. |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| earthbound14 wrote: |
I've heard many similar comments about South East Asia. It's really messed up considering how many Japanese people still spew such filth about Koreans. Koreans hate it, yet many openly do it to other cultures.
I don't understand how they can't put two and two together. |
Here is what one Japanese politician said about Koreans:
To say �The Japanese dislike Korean� has been a taboo for a long time. This is the scene from Japanese TV program at Prime time, and this TV program has popularity among Japanese. The Japanese diet member Nishimura Shingo said �The Japanese dislike Korean� with courage, this word could have been shared among most Japanese people. Korean people�s character are utterly different from Japanese people�s. Korean often break promise without hesitation�and they often tell lies, but they don�t have sense of sin at all. We Japanese should not trust Korean people. They do any dirty thing in order to accomplish their own goal. It is very dangerous to trust Korean people.
[ur=http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=499]NIPPON[/url]
Is this what many Japanese folks actually think? I know racism is pretty overt in both Korea and Japan. It's not like they have PC type people out there pushing their agenda. I was impressed when the Korean Government was trying to encourage acceptance of bi-racial children. |
You can find videos on youtube against Korea, a few kind Japanese guys maintain that Korea was helped greatly by the Japanese occupation and that Korea repays all that kindness to father Japan with hate and lies.....these poor lads always crack me up, especially when they beg Koreans to read more so that they might understand the truth. Sometimes I wonder what the hell they get taught....
I like to remind them that the only reason Korea is a country today is because of a big old atom bomb.
Korea can be PC sometimes. I like the show "Talking with Beauties" and all the other shows that showcase foreign people who live in Korea, learn Korean and marry Koreans.
For some reason though they choose to omit English teachers from this list, as if somehow we aren't as good. Kinda hurts my feelings.
Foreign restaurants are becoming more and more popular and my students are gaining more and more interest in other countries and people. I like this change in Korea, Korea is slowly developing it's own character. Commercials and movies are starting to show more than the 'typical Korean' and my students are generally becoming cooler people where I can teach an entire class on other cultures (a full term) without having to hear about Korea being better. Of course these students chose to take a class about other countries in advanced English, so I can assume they are not the norm. But it's still nice and they have helped me see that this place is changing for the better. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
| adeline wrote: |
| I also don't think this is just a bunch of whiney babies. Racism in any country is an incredibly important issue, whether it is the actual denial of rights or a more social issue. Do you think that minorities who weren't showed certain neighborhoods by realtors were just whining when they sued? Sure they could have just lived with it. Lots of racism you can survive with, but it doesn't make it right, or mean that you should. Anyways, I have read numerous articles on how racism and foreigner violence are getting increasingly worse in Korea in these bad economic times (a common trend). Of course these acts will mostly be directed at the unskilled worker set, south asians and other minorities, rather than the english teaching set, but it is something that is very worrying to me and if the economy doesn't turn around, things could get very bad. |
I mean it's whiny what most foreigners complain about...aside from the interracial dating stigmas, most of what people are complaining about are downright silly or Insignificant.
They stare...no **** sherlock....trying being someone who looks out of the norm back home....they stare too...they're just more subtle about it.
I can't get into Korean nightclubs....many places in asia will kick you out of these night clubs...I've hear of similar stories in China and japan. This isn't jim crow in the 1960's south where I couldn't go to "nice places".
Banks won't don't ____- It's becuase red tape and we have no precedent....we make up such a tiny component of the population that they probaly didn't even bother to create banking for foreigners as a priority...not becuase the CEO of Hana bank laughs at your pathetic attempts to get a International debit card. |
But you don't seem to get it. In the west, if you were routinely denied access to certain clubs or denied jobs or services solely because of your race at the rate you could be here, you'd be able to retire off the lawsuit windfalls. You sure won't here because nobody cares enough about racism you may experience. |
I weep at my lack of rights when it comes to garunteed entry at korean style night clubs and brothels....But I have a dream!
One day I can owna cell phone in my own name....and have an international debit card...free at last, free at last.
I knew these things before coming to korea...I'm not about to go start a Korean NAACP so that I can now have a korean phone in my name instead of my school's name.
I'm still waiting for these racist koreans becuase they're awfully friendly to me. |
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R-Seoul
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: your place
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Why don't I find that shocking? Again, I say Korea is like Appalachia with nice gadgets, but it's easier to know where you stand with people from Appalachia when it comes to jobs and what's what. I taught a girl once who lived in Malaysia before, but she wasn't very open-minded even after living in Malaysia for a year or two. She said she thought the dark-skinned people are dirty. Basically, Archie Bunker type attitudes are so prevalent. Basically, the woman who talked about Obama to McCain is much more common in Korea than in the U.S. You will have children in the US who think like those Korean kids. A friend of mine had a sister who taught in a rural area in Texas. The kids made fun of the fact that the teacher had a swarthy Greek husband. The difference between the US and Korea in one major respect is we have political correctness and a preaching of tolerance. That's only started to happen in Korea. |
Newsflash most people look down on people with dark-skin in South East Asian countries too, even if they are their own countrymen. I have often heard light skinned Thai people refer to darker skinned Thais as 'dirty', you don't even want to know how they describe Indians.
Let's Face it, Racism in Asia runs rampant. |
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Lonewolf
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: Koreans aren't racist |
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| They hate everyone who is not Korean equally. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
| adeline wrote: |
| I also don't think this is just a bunch of whiney babies. Racism in any country is an incredibly important issue, whether it is the actual denial of rights or a more social issue. Do you think that minorities who weren't showed certain neighborhoods by realtors were just whining when they sued? Sure they could have just lived with it. Lots of racism you can survive with, but it doesn't make it right, or mean that you should. Anyways, I have read numerous articles on how racism and foreigner violence are getting increasingly worse in Korea in these bad economic times (a common trend). Of course these acts will mostly be directed at the unskilled worker set, south asians and other minorities, rather than the english teaching set, but it is something that is very worrying to me and if the economy doesn't turn around, things could get very bad. |
I mean it's whiny what most foreigners complain about...aside from the interracial dating stigmas, most of what people are complaining about are downright silly or Insignificant.
They stare...no **** sherlock....trying being someone who looks out of the norm back home....they stare too...they're just more subtle about it.
I can't get into Korean nightclubs....many places in asia will kick you out of these night clubs...I've hear of similar stories in China and japan. This isn't jim crow in the 1960's south where I couldn't go to "nice places".
Banks won't don't ____- It's becuase red tape and we have no precedent....we make up such a tiny component of the population that they probaly didn't even bother to create banking for foreigners as a priority...not becuase the CEO of Hana bank laughs at your pathetic attempts to get a International debit card. |
But you don't seem to get it. In the west, if you were routinely denied access to certain clubs or denied jobs or services solely because of your race at the rate you could be here, you'd be able to retire off the lawsuit windfalls. You sure won't here because nobody cares enough about racism you may experience. |
I weep at my lack of rights when it comes to garunteed entry at korean style night clubs and brothels....But I have a dream!
One day I can owna cell phone in my own name....and have an international debit card...free at last, free at last.
I knew these things before coming to korea...I'm not about to go start a Korean NAACP so that I can now have a korean phone in my name instead of my school's name.
I'm still waiting for these racist koreans becuase they're awfully friendly to me. |
My word, then we must all stop discussing this. Clearly, until something happens to you then it really doesn't matter, nor will racism exist in Korea (in any form that matters) until you are discriminated against. Our bad.
And who said anything about brothels? I love the way you, bit by bit, try to subvert threads Ukon, moving them away from any meaningful exchange and discussion about issues. |
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