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slideaway77
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: Sorry but you just can't teach kids! |
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I got some feedback from my hagwon boss on how I'd done over the year. I thought I'd done ok comparatively to the other foreign teachers at my school, but turns out I had problems with discipline and he would'nt have employed me for a second year.
It�s my first year over here and I didn't realise I was doing such a bad job. It�s too late now to recover the situation but, I want to hand on some semi decent classes to the foreign teacher that replaces me.
While I accept my shortcomings, I've noticed all classes on my shift (other teachers classes and mine) seem to be losing students hand over fist. Numbers in some classes are so low our hours are being cut and a teacher on our shift that left a few months ago was not replaced.
I find the work culture one of the hardest things to get used to in Korea. I upset a senior Korean co-teacher on one occasion which she hasn't forgiven me for-I actually shouted back at her in the office when she was having a go at me (I was having a bad day.) This was raised as an issue for me- but I get on well with all the other foreign and Korean teachers that I work with, and my boss.
I teach 10-15 year olds and I've kept mostly the same classes I've had from the start. They ragged me all year because I was far too nice when I started. I hate to say it but I think in some classes it became so bad that it become the norm I just got on with the lessons and sent the kids to see the principle if it got really bad.
It�s my first year over here, I've learnt about teaching kids mostly as I went along. In new classes I don't have any serious discipline problems with because I am mostly consistent and started off not being so nice. Unfortunately I think my boss has already made his decision about me.
Any constructive advice from any experienced Hagwon teachers? |
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I_Am_The_Kiwi
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| i think you should make your avatar a little bigger....its not quite filling up the entire page. |
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afsjesse
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Location: Kickin' it in 'Kato town.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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I went through the same thing. Every month around payday my director had a "talk" with me about what I can do better. On one ocassion he said he recieved a complaint that I gave a child a nightmare and that I shouldn't send bad students out of the classroom.
I'm in a PS now and its loads better than Hagwon world. I'm sure your a fine teacher and have learned much from the experience here in Korea. If your thinking of doing another year, get a PS job as you have already paid your dues to hagwon hell.
I recommend ESL PLANET, contact Rowan! You won't regret it. Or if your Hagwoning it again, contact them also.
Best Wishes and Happy Thanksgiving, if your American.
Oh and fix that avatar... its beyond huge! |
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Rebound
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Dont worry, alot of people experience trouble with classroom management the first year. I dont know you or your teaching style, but if you made it through a year without actually getting fired, you can probably be a good teacher. It's not easy to strike a balance between keeping your classes lively, funny, and interesting, and keeping order in the class. Just move on to another job and keep working at it. |
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jadarite
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Location: Andong, Yeongyang, Seoul, now Pyeongtaek
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds more like the school is looking for an excuse. I was asked by my previous hagwon to not leave. |
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branchsnapper
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Fix avatar. Change avatar. Don't worry what Hagwon bosses say about teaching. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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They don't like your accent.
There are plenty of jobs out there. Simply go elsewhere for your second year, or get some language teaching certificate training. |
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DCJames
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry but you just can't teach kids! |
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| slideaway77 wrote: |
I got some feedback from my hagwon boss on how I'd done over the year. I thought I'd done ok comparatively to the other foreign teachers at my school, but turns out I had problems with discipline and he would'nt have employed me for a second year.
It�s my first year over here and I didn't realise I was doing such a bad job. It�s too late now to recover the situation but, I want to hand on some semi decent classes to the foreign teacher that replaces me.
While I accept my shortcomings, I've noticed all classes on my shift (other teachers classes and mine) seem to be losing students hand over fist. Numbers in some classes are so low our hours are being cut and a teacher on our shift that left a few months ago was not replaced.
I find the work culture one of the hardest things to get used to in Korea. I upset a senior Korean co-teacher on one occasion which she hasn't forgiven me for-I actually shouted back at her in the office when she was having a go at me (I was having a bad day.) This was raised as an issue for me- but I get on well with all the other foreign and Korean teachers that I work with, and my boss.
I teach 10-15 year olds and I've kept mostly the same classes I've had from the start. They ragged me all year because I was far too nice when I started. I hate to say it but I think in some classes it became so bad that it become the norm I just got on with the lessons and sent the kids to see the principle if it got really bad.
It�s my first year over here, I've learnt about teaching kids mostly as I went along. In new classes I don't have any serious discipline problems with because I am mostly consistent and started off not being so nice. Unfortunately I think my boss has already made his decision about me.
Any constructive advice from any experienced Hagwon teachers? |
Korean adherance to Confucianism is relevant even at rinky-dink hogwons. Under Korean Confucian idealism, you're supposed to accept everything as fact from those in higher position than you. You're supposed to consider the boss's words without complain and see them as truth.
Also, Koreans like your boss use criticism towards you to control you (lower salary for next contract, make you worker harder, make you complain less). Koreans are deceitful like that and have no interest in being honest and forthright as westerners know and practice.
Your boss problably could care less about you or the kids in his school. Koreans only care about looking the part (saving face) and if they can get by with this alone that's good enough for them. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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I got the same blah-blah-blah from my hagwon manager. This was after I went to them asking for help for one class, they told me there was nothing they could do (can't move one rotten kid out to make it easier for everyone?)
I've known one teacher that was told the kids thought he was scary because he didn't smile enough...
Take their "comments" with a grain of salt. Be Stalin, Hitler, Mugabe, or even Kim Jong Il in your next class for the first few weeks and see how your new class behaves   |
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EzeWong
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| afsjesse wrote: |
I went through the same thing. Every month around payday my director had a "talk" with me about what I can do better. On one ocassion he said he recieved a complaint that I gave a child a nightmare and that I shouldn't send bad students out of the classroom.
I'm in a PS now and its loads better than Hagwon world. I'm sure your a fine teacher and have learned much from the experience here in Korea. If your thinking of doing another year, get a PS job as you have already paid your dues to hagwon hell.
I recommend ESL PLANET, contact Rowan! You won't regret it. Or if your Hagwoning it again, contact them also.
Best Wishes and Happy Thanksgiving, if your American.
Oh and fix that avatar... its beyond huge! |
Ah, same advice here, minus the I used to work at a hagwon.
I'll also throw in my "I love rowan at ESL planet" plug that I always do... because he's a great recruiter. (I love you rowan!)
Anyways, about your situations, like the others have said, it comes with experience. You're a good enough teacher to admit when you've had shortcomings, that makes you open to learning the ways of the dragon (ie. teaching and discipline). Having previous managment experience in a resturant... gave me the tools to deal with kids (I basically day to day handled GIANT children working with the waitresses in that resturant).
So for some solid grounded tools that work: (I'm gonna abscond on the theory, for I beleive someones gonna cover it anyways) heres things you can do almost immediately.
Here's what my training in the way of the dragon has taught me:(a lot of this you may already know, but I'm throwing it in there for other newbies that haven't experienced this yet)
On children and co-workers
1) Change your aura. The feeling you give to people impacts how they treat you. Children are just like adults. They make assumptions about what they can and cannot do in your precence based on how you look and act. For example, I'm generally a pretty immature guy that likes to sprawl my body all over, scratch his groin, and lose all posture. But in the school, I have a upright posture, a poker face, and a no nonsense attitude. I give off a vibe that I'm military material and that I'm someone, I got something to do, and I'm doing something important. I take my job seriously etc. Think of a beaming aura around you that stands for virtue, solid valor, working hard to improve the education of children. Always always always be thinking (how can I teach these students so they will REALLY learn the material)
On co-workers
2) Your behavior towards others. When I first came here, I made the mistake about talking about irrelevant gossip topics with some of the co-teachers. I learned quickly though that just like America, nothing is sacred here and people will stab you very easily. Keep distance with everyone, but be kind. DO NOT GIVE RESPECT to those who haven't earned it. I mean it. Don't be nice to everyone, you'll be a giant doormat. And don't be a jackass to everyone. If there is something you can find truly respectable about a person, focus in on that and treat them with regards to what they have done. I have one teacher that takes care of me, she introduces me to her Korean friends, brings me to her church, etc. She also is very hard working, is always busy, but very thougthful. She helps the disabled students when she can. SHE DESERVES respect, and I give it to her in the appropriate manner. I have another teacher, she's nice, we go out, she buys me gifts. I also think she's cute... BUT I don't respect her. Despite these nice things, she tells me gossip about the school teachers and principal. This isn't worthy of respect and never feign respect for something that isn't worthy of it. However, bosses are excluded from rule as you should always respect your boss merely for his position. This sounds antitheical, but it's not. Look at it this way, he must have done something right to be a principal. Give him the respect of his position, not as a person. I make deep bows to my principal and say Anyongshimika. But I don't go beyond that because I don't know what person he is.
On children:
Discipline - Never ever ever allow anything. They say in phsychology one of the phases of development a baby goes through is to test their parents. Children never grow out of this stage. They see you as a giant walking candy machine waiting to be raped. First, always always enforce the rules despite ANYTHING, no exceptions. For example, you have a class and a rule you set is no talking. But your best student is teaching a lower student how to do the activity. DOESN'T MATTER SLAM THEM. No one breaks the rules. You lose respect if you show favoritism and that you can bend the rules. Works against you in two ways. A small small thing can really damage your reputation. View all your students in the same way. It's so hard for me to do this everyday. But just yesterday I have this adorable little girl that has a crush on me. She even made me a paper heart... awwww. I really love her.. In fact I'll probably marry her in 15 more years lol. But like all students I treat her the same. She asked me "can you give us hints for test?" Not a ridiculous request and she did it with puppy eyes. "NO!" I told her. It was in front of her friends too so I know I made her look bad. But it doesn't matter. She could be my wife for all I care, I DO NOT GIVE HINTS for the test. When someone asks you for something... Always imagine the worst possible senario of how it can get you in trouble. Then you won't have any problems saying no. No is a powerful tool to discipline kids. The more often they hear it, the more often they can expect it. They should always be assuming with you more often that not that it's "Not okay" rather than "it's okay". You can still do this while being kind.
You have to decide now, you want to be liked? Or you want to be respected? You can have both... but it's too hard sometimes.
Sorry, I have a lot more to write but I gotta jet to class. I'll be back |
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ChinaBoy
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Rather than yelling at Korean female coworkers, calmly, plainly, coldly insult them in a rational manner.
Watch the waterworks start and from that moment on they will be afraid to speak to you.
Yelling just gets people angry and confrontational. |
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reimund
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| EzeWong wrote: |
| afsjesse wrote: |
I went through the same thing. Every month around payday my director had a "talk" with me about what I can do better. On one ocassion he said he recieved a complaint that I gave a child a nightmare and that I shouldn't send bad students out of the classroom.
I'm in a PS now and its loads better than Hagwon world. I'm sure your a fine teacher and have learned much from the experience here in Korea. If your thinking of doing another year, get a PS job as you have already paid your dues to hagwon hell.
I recommend ESL PLANET, contact Rowan! You won't regret it. Or if your Hagwoning it again, contact them also.
Best Wishes and Happy Thanksgiving, if your American.
Oh and fix that avatar... its beyond huge! |
Ah, same advice here, minus the I used to work at a hagwon.
I'll also throw in my "I love rowan at ESL planet" plug that I always do... because he's a great recruiter. (I love you rowan!)
Anyways, about your situations, like the others have said, it comes with experience. You're a good enough teacher to admit when you've had shortcomings, that makes you open to learning the ways of the dragon (ie. teaching and discipline). Having previous managment experience in a resturant... gave me the tools to deal with kids (I basically day to day handled GIANT children working with the waitresses in that resturant).
So for some solid grounded tools that work: (I'm gonna abscond on the theory, for I beleive someones gonna cover it anyways) heres things you can do almost immediately.
Here's what my training in the way of the dragon has taught me:(a lot of this you may already know, but I'm throwing it in there for other newbies that haven't experienced this yet)
On children and co-workers
1) Change your aura. The feeling you give to people impacts how they treat you. Children are just like adults. They make assumptions about what they can and cannot do in your precence based on how you look and act. For example, I'm generally a pretty immature guy that likes to sprawl my body all over, scratch his groin, and lose all posture. But in the school, I have a upright posture, a poker face, and a no nonsense attitude. I give off a vibe that I'm military material and that I'm someone, I got something to do, and I'm doing something important. I take my job seriously etc. Think of a beaming aura around you that stands for virtue, solid valor, working hard to improve the education of children. Always always always be thinking (how can I teach these students so they will REALLY learn the material)
On co-workers
2) Your behavior towards others. When I first came here, I made the mistake about talking about irrelevant gossip topics with some of the co-teachers. I learned quickly though that just like America, nothing is sacred here and people will stab you very easily. Keep distance with everyone, but be kind. DO NOT GIVE RESPECT to those who haven't earned it. I mean it. Don't be nice to everyone, you'll be a giant doormat. And don't be a jackass to everyone. If there is something you can find truly respectable about a person, focus in on that and treat them with regards to what they have done. I have one teacher that takes care of me, she introduces me to her Korean friends, brings me to her church, etc. She also is very hard working, is always busy, but very thougthful. She helps the disabled students when she can. SHE DESERVES respect, and I give it to her in the appropriate manner. I have another teacher, she's nice, we go out, she buys me gifts. I also think she's cute... BUT I don't respect her. Despite these nice things, she tells me gossip about the school teachers and principal. This isn't worthy of respect and never feign respect for something that isn't worthy of it. However, bosses are excluded from rule as you should always respect your boss merely for his position. This sounds antitheical, but it's not. Look at it this way, he must have done something right to be a principal. Give him the respect of his position, not as a person. I make deep bows to my principal and say Anyongshimika. But I don't go beyond that because I don't know what person he is.
On children:
Discipline - Never ever ever allow anything. They say in phsychology one of the phases of development a baby goes through is to test their parents. Children never grow out of this stage. They see you as a giant walking candy machine waiting to be raped. First, always always enforce the rules despite ANYTHING, no exceptions. For example, you have a class and a rule you set is no talking. But your best student is teaching a lower student how to do the activity. DOESN'T MATTER SLAM THEM. No one breaks the rules. You lose respect if you show favoritism and that you can bend the rules. Works against you in two ways. A small small thing can really damage your reputation. View all your students in the same way. It's so hard for me to do this everyday. But just yesterday I have this adorable little girl that has a crush on me. She even made me a paper heart... awwww. I really love her.. In fact I'll probably marry her in 15 more years lol. But like all students I treat her the same. She asked me "can you give us hints for test?" Not a ridiculous request and she did it with puppy eyes. "NO!" I told her. It was in front of her friends too so I know I made her look bad. But it doesn't matter. She could be my wife for all I care, I DO NOT GIVE HINTS for the test. When someone asks you for something... Always imagine the worst possible senario of how it can get you in trouble. Then you won't have any problems saying no. No is a powerful tool to discipline kids. The more often they hear it, the more often they can expect it. They should always be assuming with you more often that not that it's "Not okay" rather than "it's okay". You can still do this while being kind.
You have to decide now, you want to be liked? Or you want to be respected? You can have both... but it's too hard sometimes.
Sorry, I have a lot more to write but I gotta jet to class. I'll be back |
That's a lot of great advice. Thanks. |
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slideaway77
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice and the detailed answers, sheds a new light on things for me.
The giant TB aviator stays!!!!! |
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mnhnhyouh
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Location: The Middle Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry but you just can't teach kids! |
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| DCJames wrote: |
Also, Koreans like your boss use criticism towards you to control you (lower salary for next contract, make you worker harder, make you complain less). Koreans are deceitful like that and have no interest in being honest and forthright as westerners know and practice.
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I am wondering if you have ever worked in the west.
h |
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alex83
Joined: 03 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds like you have good intentions and really want to improve yourself, which is great.
In Korea, with hagwon jobs especially, they'll try to exploit those qualities.
It's ok to take criticism in any line of work. Nobody's perfect (especially those who are new), so it's all part of the process of improvement.
That being said, ask yourself, WHO is your hagwon boss?
Is he a qualified teacher?
Did he earn his position or is he just somehow invested in the hagwon?
Can he even form a coherent English sentence?
Also...
What are his motivations? (Somebody already mentioned how they will bash your ability as a ploy to lower salary and get away with other things.)
Perhaps it's time for you to leave that hagwon (or hagwons altogether). If he does want you back, then you REALLY don't want to be there because you know the mind games will continue. |
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