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aboxofchocolates

Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Location: on your mind
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, KJelly just said that, but with bigger words. |
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samcheokguy

Joined: 02 Nov 2008 Location: Samcheok G-do
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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As long as it is 'legal' to HIRE illegal immigrants, the evil boss will continue to abuse them. Now injustic is rife, and everywhere, but it doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye. |
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bundangbabo
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Zones of Exploitation
Korean Investment on Guatemala
by Kurt Petersen
GUATEMALA CITY - Some 40 kilometers northwest of Guatemala City, along the highway to Chimaltenango, a weathered sign reads, "Korean Free Trade Zone." The 90 square kilometers of plowed-under, barren land behind the sign were designated to be a massive industrial park, housing 30 factories, including Lucky-Goldstar's television production facility, and employing 10,000 Guatemalans.
The empty industrial park symbolizes the failure of South Korea's recent attempt to industrialize Guatemala based on the Korean development experience. Korean corporations have stopped investing in Guatemala.
The investment suspension marks a sudden change in Korean business policy. As recently as 1990, then-Korean Ambassador to Guatemala Key-Sung Cho confidently stated, "We would like to start an economic revolution in Guatemala during my term to demonstrate our model of economic cooperation - industrialization based on Korean cooperation and investment - so that other countries in Latin America might follow."
Korea's commitment to Guatemala was not just rhetorical. Between 1988 and 1991, 50 Korean maquilas - foreign-owned factories which produce for export - started operations in Guatemala. Together, they exported more than $150 million worth of goods a year, accounting for more than half of the Guatemalan apparel industry's earnings. Guatemala became home to more than 20 percent of all foreign Korean apparel assembly factories.
Today, Korean investment in Guatemala remains substantial, but new investments have stalled in the wake of U.S. State Department pressure on the Guatemalan government to crack down on the widespread labor abuse in Korean factories. State Department concern for Guatemalan workers began in 1990, when it became apparent that Korea was taking leadership of the Guatemalan apparel industry. In the mid-to-late 1980s, the United States Agency for International Development (U.S. AID) had worked with the World Bank to impose structural adjustment policies on Guatemala, including the devaluation of Guatemalan currency and the release of price controls on Guatemalan products. These changes created an extremely favorable investment climate in the country. However, it was South Korean firms, rather than U.S. investors, that took advantage of the incentives and protections offered by Guatemala.
Clearing a path for investment
Guatemala's maquila industry exploded in the 1980s. In 1984, a half dozen factories employing 2,000 people assembled $6 million worth of clothing for export. Seven years later, more than 250 factories with a workforce of 60,000 exported more than $350 million of assembled garments to be sold in U.S. retail outlets.
While the maquila sector in the rest of the Caribbean and Central America is dominated by U.S. investors, Guatemala's maquila industry is driven by South Korean capital and owners. A wide range of Korean corporations have opened maquila operations in Guatemala. About three-fourths of the factories are owned by small- to medium-sized Korean businesses. Korean transnational corporations (or chaebols) such as Samsung and Sam Phoong, which own five and three factories respectively, administer at least 12 of the largest and most sophisticated factories. Sam Phoong owns the largest maquila factory, one of the three largest industrial plants in Guatemala, which employs nearly 1,000 workers.
The South Korean interest in Guatemala can be traced to a combination of labor unrest which rocked Korea in the late 1980s and trade quotas limiting its apparel exports. Searching for a new export platform, Korea selected Guatemala as its major investment focus in the Americas for a number of reasons: long-standing diplomatic ties between the two countries; what the Koreans viewed as an opportunity to dominate an undeveloped industry; Guatemala's proximity to the United States; and the country's low production and labor costs. During Guatemala's international isolation from 1977 to 1985, the Republic of Korea was one of the few countries, along with Taiwan and Israel, which sustained amiable diplomatic relations with the country. Sharing both an anticommunist ideology and a military-dominated government, Korea empathized with the Guatemalan government in its battle against a guerrilla insurgency.
These ties formed the foundation of the relationship between the Guatemalan and South Korean governments, in which Korea offered massive investments in exchange for implicit assurances against government intervention and labor disruption. Guatemala's motives for such an agreement are self-evident. The country, like many of its neighbors, is in desperate economic straits. "The facts are simple. We need jobs, foreign exchange and capital," explains a representative from the Economy Ministry. "We are not in a position to discriminate against investors. If the Koreans or the North Americans want to invest, we have no leverage to refuse or negotiate their offers."
Thus, from about 1988 to 1991, Korean factories opened and operated as if in Korea, their operations carefully coordinated and controlled by the Korean embassy. The embassy is, in the words of a former U.S. Embassy trade attache, "the self-proclaimed headquarters for all Korean investors." A list of the phone numbers of the Korean maquila factories hanging in the receptionist's carrel at the Korean Embassy suggests the close contacts the embassy maintains with the maquilas. The Korean Embassy staff act as advocates, spokespersons, mediators and consultants for individual Korean factories, which are all connected in a grand scheme to establish a Korean production structure in Guatemala.
For its part, the Guatemalan government did everything possible to smooth the way for Korean investors. The Economy Ministry has never rejected the application or revoked the license of any Korean maquila factory. Hundreds of Korean personnel administered factories without proper work permits or visas. The Labor Ministry instructed its inspectors to ignore violations of the Labor Code at Korean factories. The then-Labor Minister refused to comment publicly on the mounting outcry against Korean managers and supervisors, merely referring to Korean labor practices as "distinct." In fact, up to the end of the administration's term, Christian Democrat officials remained silent about the notoriously harsh treatment of workers in Korean factories. The role of the embassy is so dominant that few of the administrators arrive in Guatemala with even a rudimentary understanding of Spanish. "Besides the ambassadors, they [Korean managers] never speak with anyone outside of the factory," says a U.S. Embassy official. "With the embassy as their voice, they really don't need to learn Spanish."
The United States steps in
The right-wing, pro-business MLM regime of Jorge Serrano took power in January 1991, as the Korean-Guatemalan alliance strained to the breaking point.
At the prompting of the U.S. State Department, the Guatemalan government shifted its policy toward Korean investment, suddenly subjecting Korean operations to unprecedented scrutiny. Prompted by U.S. Ambassador Thomas Strook, in March 1991, the newly elected Guatemalan Congress, as one of its first acts, formed a committee to investigate and recommend ways to counter deplorable labor conditions and wages in maquila factories. More significantly, the Labor Ministry - aided by the U.S. labor attache, who called the abuse of Guatemalan workers "a very, very serious problem in Korean factories" - began a highly publicized crusade against worker abuse in Korean- managed maquila factories. The Ministry issued a report concluding that the Korean maquila factories were guilty of egregious labor abuses and called for new labor legislation directed specifically at eliminating these violations. In response, Korean investors backed away from Guatemala.
Most unionists and labor rights advocates, however, doubt the sincerity of both the State Department's and the Guatemalan government's newfound criticism of the maquilas.
As late as March 1989, they note, the U.S. Embassy was praising Korean investment in Guatemala. An unclassified memo reported that "[t]he Koreans also provide clean, well-lighted working conditions and a variety of non-cash benefits ranging from sports programs to housing improvements." Commenting on Korean labor practices, the memo continued approvingly, "Management is openly seeking to develop a spirit of worker identification with the company and to discourage union organizing."
Critics also point out that throughout its campaign the new Guatemalan government has focused exclusively on Korean companies, without mentioning labor violations - including forced labor, poor health and safety conditions and paltry wages - rampant in Guatemalan or North American factories. Also ignored is the intense exploitation of farm workers on Guatemalan plantations, where wages are often even lower and the toil much more difficult than in the maquila factories. And the new administration, like its predecessor, has assisted maquila companies in fighting off unionization; most recently, the government delayed, without explanation, processing the application of workers at Phillips-Van Heusen factories for a union [see "Made in Guatemala: Union Busting in the Maquiladoras," Multinational Monitor, November 1991].
The matter of the Korean maquila factories is, in the words of one political analyst, "the perfect political issue." The abuse is flagrant. The victims are young girls and minors. The abusers are recently arrived foreign intruders (who happen not to be North American); and, most important, they are intruding on the turf of wealthy Guatemalans. Most elements of the domestic private business sector want the Korean investment to stall, so that the Koreans do not swallow up the entire apparel industry. "The government comes off as the courageous hero, rebuking the foreign invaders and saving the young women," comments a Guatemalan journalist. "To make things perfect, the private sector is applauding its efforts."
An unanswered question is whether the Guatemalan government, which seems intent on continuing to pursue the World Bank - U.S. AID model of export-oriented development, can afford a split with Korean entrepreneurs. The Korean firms have brought a significant influx of jobs and capital into the teetering Guatemalan economy. Whether U.S. investors will step in and fill the void remains to be seen.
The South Korean Model of Labor Repression
THE KOREAN INVESTMENT drive in Guatemala is based on a brutal system of labor control which closely resembles the repressive industrial relations found in Korea. Korean managers claim their repressive management techniques are necessary to teach Guatemalan workers - the majority of whom are young women - the "work habits" of Korean employees. A Korean official explains, "They [Guatemalan workers] have their own work habits but we have Korean habits and discipline. For example, Guatemalan workers must learn to show up on time, work as long as necessary and be obedient to their superiors. The job of Korean technicians is to train Guatemalan workers in Korean habits and discipline. Soon, most Guatemalan workers will be working according to our discipline and work habits."
A manager of Korean-owned Ace International in Guatemala City claims that the worker behavior which most troubles his staff is the excessive time employees spend in factory bathrooms. He attributes these visits to irresponsible behavior and laziness, adding, "I don't understand why they would want to use them [the bathrooms] anyway. They smell so bad. I am disgusted by them." A Guatemalan supervisor at the factory offers some insight into why the workers spend time in the bathrooms: "After a Korean supervisor scolds and humiliates a worker, she runs to the bathroom to cry and regain her composure."
Disobedience, broadly defined as any divergence from management's dictates, is categorically prohibited in Korean factories. For Korean managers, regimentation depends on total conformity; every command, no matter how trivial, must be followed to sustain the system. A Guatemalan manager at the Korean-owned Modas Del Este garment assembly factory points to the rigidity of this policy: "We even lose good workers because of disobedient behavior. If a worker fails to follow a supervisor's command, she will go, no matter how productive."
Conformity is achieved through progressive punishment and extreme pressure to produce. The severity of punishment generally increases with the cost and/or frequency of the offense. If a worker turns to speak to a neighbor, a Korean supervisor may yell at her to return to her proper position. Or, if nearby, the supervisor may place his hands on the worker's shoulder and roughly guide her back into place. Some supervisors routinely rap workers' heads with their hands and knuckles for such minor acts of misconduct. The line between these relatively innocuous punishments and more violent and humiliating ones is easily and often breached.
"Misconduct" that is often met with more serious punishment includes eating at the work station, repeated talking or movement, or a sewing mistake. Most frequently, supervisors scream at the offender, calling her stupid or slow. In most Korean factories, each day at least one or two operators endure a supervisor's wrath while her peers look on. "When a supervisor yells at a worker, they do it at her worktable," says a worker. "The rest of us just pray we are not the next one."
Korean supervisors and managers also regularly practice corporeal punishment against workers. While physical punishment is most commonly reserved for the most serious offenses, it is not unusual for supervisors to strike workers for routine errors. For example, some workers report that supervisors grab or shake an employee's neck or hair if she is caught talking for a second or third time. Other supervisors slam sticks on the workers' hands, or throw pieces of cloth in workers' faces. In one factory, workers report that female Korean supervisors squeeze workers' breasts as punishment.
The Korean system of labor control also involves a relentless pressure to produce. Explains one female worker, "They holler, �Faster, faster!' �Make haste!' They push us. How can I understand their language? I try to explain that I don't understand their explanations. They just keep yelling, �Faster, faster!' but we are human beings, not robots that simply work faster by pushing a button."
Organized workers pose the only serious threat to Korean-style production. On at least a half dozen occasions, enraged by working conditions and abusive treatment at a Korean factory, workers approached trade unions for representation. However, on each occasion, a union failed to materialize. The Korean Ambassador Wung-Sik Kung openly admits that the Guatemalan government "arranged" the settlement of several of these disputes.
-K.P. |
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earthbound14

Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Location: seoul
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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not a bad article. A little speculative with little real detail unfortunately, but I can appreciate reading about the problems the immigrant worker have here.
Thanks.
I like the factory workers here, well, I like going to their restaurants and buying food at the markets and festivals set up for them. Honestly though I feel miles apart from them. I have a few friends from Nepal and India. They have expressed how they would love to come here to work. I'm not so keen to help them come. I think they might be happier with less money at home than here. Every now and then you see troops of migrant workers in the airports of Asia being shuffled from one country to the other for cheap labour. They look so out of place in the airport, huge groups of them huddled together with their carry on wrapped in a sheet and their eyes full of confusion. They look more like they should be walking a goat down a dirt road rather than in an international airport.
It must be tough being so economically powerless.
Anyone who has no sympathy for them and has only posted condescending remarks here....well you suck and should have your passports revoked. |
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Ethan Allen Hawley

Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I am more than a little surprised at the negativity in this thread. I think if nothing else this thread does give us more insight into Korea, which I think many here are grasping with.
It seems more than just a little un-democratic to shout down the thread. If you don't like the way the OP responds to your psots you can always ignore him.
I hope the OP continues to post on this subject as I find it interesting and important. |
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ethan Allen Hawley wrote: |
Now, Mr/ Ms Captain Corea,
once again you seem to be intent on getting negative,
and referring to your supposed experience in a myriad of different business fields to do with foreigners from south east Asian countries (which is about all I remember you going on about before). |
Negative eh? because I give examples that run counter to your posts? Is it 'being negative' to show the other side of the coin?
So, when I give examples about actual experience in the field of discussion... it's now going on and on about something? WTF is that about?
Quote: |
That's cool. I appreciate your experience. I'm interested in your stories.
I'm interested in stories about SEA workers/ migrant workers (not including ESLers.)
That's why I posted the article above. It wasn't written by me.
By all means, go ahead and share your stories here.
Can you be as specific and clear as the writer in the article above?
And, can you tell us yet exactly what it is that you do now?
(How come you're so defensive? Are you a factory owner or something?) |
Funny, so now I'm a factory owner, eh? Because I propose a different point of view than yours, I must somehow be 'one of them'.
No, I am not a factory owner, but I will give you some examples of experiences I have had with different migrant workers.
1. The "ESLers" I have met here have been a mixed bag. Some have enjoyed their experiences here, others have not. And while this often had to do with their employment situation, it also seemed closely tied to their personalities.
2. The foreign executives I have known here seem fairly consistent (and professional). They come here for 1-5 years and run their respective companies (and often run in the 'embassy circles')
3. The foreign skilled labourers that I have met here generally seem to enjoy their time. They are usually engineers or lawyers with advanced degrees, and while they might have some similar complaints as what you'd find on this board about living in Korea.
4. The unskilled workers I have met are also a mixed bag. Some come here and work as domestic servants (you'll find a lot of Chosun-jok in this area), or as factory workers and construction labourers. Obviously they come from a variety of countries and with a variety of goals in mind. I've met a number of them that have lived here for years and 'settled down' with a local (go to any 'foreign spouses association' and you'll see lots of them), I've sen some just come and go, and I've sen (and know about) others that disappeared right off the plane.
I've known of heart breaking stories about workers living in 'company provided box-cars' with little heat or amenities.. and being locked up in them over night. And I've heard of ridiculous stories of worker abuse (one factory even took away their eating utensils).
So yeah, you can call my experiences 'supposed' and doubt what I'm saying - that's your call.
But let me be clear in what I AM saying - that migrant workers come in all shapes and sizes, and that while there are bad experiences, there are good ones too. And if there are bad people in the mix, there are also good. Just like anyone that's lived in Korea for any length of time knows, Dave's ESL is not truly representative of all teachers in Korea - your posts are not wholly representative of migrant workers.
So the next time you post and ask people to "fight against the Korean government trying to control you" and support illegal workers, you might want to check yourself, or I will. |
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Ethan Allen Hawley

Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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CC,
I really am interested in your #4 above. Can you expand on it please?
You said:
"I've met a number of them that have lived here for years and 'settled down' with a local
(go to any 'foreign spouses association' and you'll see lots of them)..."
Well, you got me there for sure.
I've never been to a foreign spouses association gathering of any sort.
How do 3D workers manage to meet locals to settle down with them?
How do they manage to get legal permission to stay more than their maximum three years?
You want to offer the other side of the coin. I want to see it.
Please, tell us some specifics of the positive stories you know personally.
How much did you see a "good" 3D worker manage to save
in the three years they were legally allowed to be here?
What were they doing for that three years?
How many hours were they working a week?
How safe/ dangerous was their work?
In what ways were their bosses kind and generous to them?
And how much did they have to pay and provide to come to 'our country' to work here? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Ethan Allen Hawley wrote: |
CC,
I.
How do 3D workers manage to meet locals to settle down with them?
How do they manage to get legal permission to stay more than their maximum three years?
? |
If 3D workers marry locals, they get a visa (F-2 I believe) which allows them to stay here indefinitely. At the last hakwon I worked at, the head teacher was married to a guy from Pakistan. So it does happen.
Like everyone else has been telling you, you just can't lump all 3D workers together and assume they are being mistreated, just the same as you can't lump all English teachers here together and assume that we all feel the same.
If workers are being mistreated, that's one thing.
But if illegals are here staying in the country to make money (despite your tales of ill-treatment) then it's hard to have any sympathy for a guy who knew what he was getting into (having experienced it for three years already). If he's decided that the money is more important than the treatment, who are you to decide otherwise. If he gets caught then let the law take its course.
And FYI if you think we have considerable influence, then you are woefully uninformed. Most of us are only here for a year or two anyway...what kind of influence is that? The vast majority of us can't even vote. And if we did have any kind of real influence, we'd be using that to get certain visa restrictions lifted. We can't even get the worst of our own visa restrictions lifted and you are assuming we can meddle in the affairs of others to do so? |
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earthbound14

Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Location: seoul
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Ethan Allen Hawley wrote: |
CC,
I.
How do 3D workers manage to meet locals to settle down with them?
How do they manage to get legal permission to stay more than their maximum three years?
? |
If 3D workers marry locals, they get a visa (F-2 I believe) which allows them to stay here indefinitely. At the last hakwon I worked at, the head teacher was married to a guy from Pakistan. So it does happen.
Like everyone else has been telling you, you just can't lump all 3D workers together and assume they are being mistreated, just the same as you can't lump all English teachers here together and assume that we all feel the same.
If workers are being mistreated, that's one thing.
But if illegals are here staying in the country to make money (despite your tales of ill-treatment) then it's hard to have any sympathy for a guy who knew what he was getting into (having experienced it for three years already). If he's decided that the money is more important than the treatment, who are you to decide otherwise. If he gets caught then let the law take its course.
And FYI if you think we have considerable influence, then you are woefully uninformed. Most of us are only here for a year or two anyway...what kind of influence is that? The vast majority of us can't even vote. And if we did have any kind of real influence, we'd be using that to get certain visa restrictions lifted. We can't even get the worst of our own visa restrictions lifted and you are assuming we can meddle in the affairs of others to do so? |
I think he was trying to raise awareness for some reasons why some immigrant workers become illegal workers. Some reasons that are not really in their control. There are some cases of employers using illegals on purpose (so why aren't these employers targeted the same as the workers?) and some cases of employers intentionally bring people here illegaly (which the immigrant was somewhat unaware of). I have read of some of these instances.
Also he was simply raising some awareness of the plight of legal workers. They do not always get treated well.
I don't think he ever said that all of them face these problems or that all Korean employers do this. Nor does he state that some illegal workers take advantage (or don't take advantage) of the situation. These are all issues. Possibly valid ones, but I don't think he intended on dealing with them. his intent is to look out for those who need help. Probably a group who is more likely needing help more than the employer or the country that may be disadvantaged by those who are taking advantage of the system.
The majority of news out there does not focus on horrible Korean employers. So you can't say there is a bias against them, or that a huge generalization is being made (although the article itself is a bit general). He has posted one article that makes a point and does not itself generalize about how all employer are (however general the article may be). There is a difference.
As far as his ability to make changes? Well that is really up to him to try and he has every right to see if others find the issue as interesting. I don't understand why so many posters have jumped on this. |
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Ethan Allen Hawley

Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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Hi UrbanMyth,
Nice to see you back again too.
Okay, you got me; those two lines could be read as mutually exclusive.
To be clearer for you:
How does a foreign 3D worker find the time in his/her busy schedule at the factory to meet and greet with locals enough that the local wants to make it permanent, and thereby sponsor a marriage visa?
(I'm sure it must be possible. ... Church is the only place I can imagine.
I'm asking CC for examples, personal experience stories with which he is personally familiar.)
I'm glad, and interested, to hear of your former head-teacher and her Pakistani husband. Any idea how they met? What was he doing? Can you share any more of their story?
And, I'm asking that if a foreign 3D worker does NOT meet and marry a local, then how is it possible that they stay, legally, more than three years?
Now, as to the influence issue:
if I ever did use the words 'considerable influence' then I was meaning as an amorphous, mostly disorganised group, rather than as individuals.
Having said that, however,
I do believe every one of us does have the ability to influence others with whom we come into contact,
for example merely by bringing up the topic in an indirect, non-threatening, open-question or open ended statement kind of way.
For another hypothetical example,
as ESL teachers, perhaps by using photographs of ouselves on our last trips through south east Asia, enjoying sharing a happy moment with a local from a different nation and culture.
Or, for more confident people in such a situation, foreign and local 3D workers could be the topic of a higher-level free-talking class.
I don't see any of these approaches as meddling. It's certainly not goal-oriented in terms of any concrete fixed agenda such as getting visa restrictions lifted. I'm talking about indirect influence here, not power as such.
Or, of course, we could just talk about the weather, and then go home and watch more TV.
Righto; I think it's time for some dolsot bibimbap. Later, alligator! |
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Ethan Allen Hawley wrote: |
CC,
I. How do 3D workers manage to meet locals to settle down with them?
How do they manage to get legal permission to stay more than their maximum three years?
? |
If 3D workers marry locals, they get a visa (F-2 I believe) which allows them to stay here indefinitely. At the last hakwon I worked at, the head teacher was married to a guy from Pakistan. So it does happen. |
yeah, honestly ethan, I'm not sure I'm prepared to list out all of the ways that people meet each other. The ones I have known have generally met through work (yes, even in factories, romance can bloom).
You seem stuck/fixated on this 3 year work program thing though. Why does it bother you so that they are only given a 3 year stay? does it bother you that teachers are only generally allowed 1 year? What would be the solution, an open ended visa?
Quote: |
And, I'm asking that if a foreign 3D worker does NOT meet and marry a local, then how is it possible that they stay, legally, more than three years? |
They can get another work visa -this is of course dependant on their skills and industry.
I'll try to address some of your specific questions though....
How do 3D workers manage to meet locals to settle down with them? - they date them.
How do they manage to get legal permission to stay more than their maximum three years? - answered above. They could get married to a local, or re-enter with a new visa program.
How much did you see a "good" 3D worker manage to save? That's their frackin business. I'm not about to their accounts. Why don't you post up how much you've saved while working here before you go asking other people's personal stuff?
What were they doing for that three years? - working and living.
How many hours were they working a week? - that's dependant on their industry. The ones I knew (both in engineering and manufacturing) were working 40-50+ hours a week... along with their Korean coworkers.
How safe/ dangerous was their work? - again, industry specific. The ones I knew had very safe jobs.
In what ways were their bosses kind and generous to them? - WTF kind of question is this? What kind of ways is your boss 'kind' to you back home?? They fraking PAID THEM. Sure, it's nice if you have a 'kind boss', but seriously, are you honestly asking this question??
And how much did they have to pay and provide to come to 'our country' to work here? - usually nothing. Most companies that operate above board try hard to steer away from overseas brokers and stuff. This is tough, because there are always work-arounds, but generally larger companies that recruit from overseas ask during the interview (and Immigration may ask this as well) if someone/anyone has helped them in their application.
I've got some questions for you Ethan...
Have you ever worked in an industry (other than EFL) in Korea that has migrant workers?
What issues of abuse have you actually witnessed?
When you asked us (on this forum) to 'fight the Korean government', did you do so knowing it is illegal for foreigners to engage in political activity?
Beyond being good global citizens and showing pictures of our recent vacations in SE Asia, what do you really expect from the board members here?
Have you ever talked with any 3D migrant workers here?
Have you ever talked with any 3D migrant employers here?
When you read about bad hogwons and directors on this board, do you always believe the poster's story?
When and where did you meet your last girlfriend?
How much money have you saved?
How much money do you make?
Do you ask these kinds of questions to everyone you meet?
Do you ask them to the 3D workers you've met?
Do any of these questions strike you as a little too personal?? |
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samcheokguy

Joined: 02 Nov 2008 Location: Samcheok G-do
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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^You are the kind of guy who'd deny mexican babies care in American hospitals without proof of legality aren't you? |
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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samcheokguy wrote: |
^You are the kind of guy who'd deny mexican babies care in American hospitals without proof of legality aren't you? |
What are you going on about??
1. I'm not American - so I've never been in the position to have to worry about the topic you've stated.
2. I've actually posted about my sympathy and experiences towards the migrant workers who have it tough here.
Do me a favor and actually read my posts (both in this thread, and the near exact one the OP posted last month) before you start casting aspersions about me. |
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Soccerstar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Location: Kyungsangnamdo
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Look Ethan,
I have compassion for the poor. I was raised in Central Africa in the middle of the kind of poverty that you don't even know exists.
I would love to help poor people. My ultimate dream is to go to a poor country and start a small business to employ locals and give them back the profits.
HOWEVER The situation here is an entirely different matter. I happen to be good friends with a number of foreign workers. A vast number of the foreign workers are here illegally for the sole purpose of making money. Sure they have a rough time here, but they can go back whenever they want!
Ethan, based on your attitude towards Captain Korea I seriously doubt that you are actually interested in our pointing out the obvious. All foreigners here can return home whenever they want. Nobody is forcing them to stay. ESL teachers who work in a bad hogwon can go home whenever they want. Nobody is forcing them to stay.
Your compassion is mis-directed. Those who are abused here have a choice to leave. Those who are abused in their home countries have no choice but to suffer. Your compassion should be for those in their home countries, not those who are trying to stay illegally here because of greed. I help the poor and desperate, but not the greedy.
Last edited by Soccerstar on Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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