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hamlet712
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Trevor wrote: |
All of the things you described were happening with regularity when the United States constitution was written.
You said that document was outdated. You are incorrect.
If you are suggesting that we should give up our civil liberties because of the dangers posed by the internet, then I suggest you stop using your computer. There is nothing 'controversial' about your beliefs. People have been trying very hard to infringe on other people's civil liberties since the notion of civil liberites was invented. There is nothing older or more common. If nothing else, please recognize that your beliefs are no different than J. Edgar Hoover's and they preceded him by many centuries. They are far from modern.
| hamlet712 wrote: |
K man, Ill keep that in mind when people who hold your values are screwing or kidnapping our children, downloading pictures of abused and exploited children and cheating on your spouses left right and center while I watch you get three years or probation because with all of the privacy laws we couldnt get anough evidence to convict.
cause clearly I am just really whacked out with my priorities.
Heaven forbid the government or anyone else can walk into your home as you watch reruns of Seinfeld.
I've been as polite as I can, but really you can just piss off now. I admit that my beleifs are controversial and that they have slipperly slopes, You CAN NOT OR WILL NOT admit that our world has some pretty major issues that are either caused or helped by the issue of privacy.
But this is a global thing, humans are by and large a selfish animal and the hell with everyone else, many do nothing to help thier fellow man or charities and IF they do ( for many) its only because they get a break on thier taxes for doing so, so its like they never actually gave the money in the first place.
Out of sight out of mind right?
I wonder if you'll value privacy so much when its one of your family members that's been murdered, one of your kids thats been sodomised or photographed or when its one of your family members that has been victimised by any other crime.
Theres no need to worry about public safety as long as YOUR FAMILY is safe in your inpenetrable cocoon of a house. Right? |
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Im done man, Im gonna ruin the fahking world right?
Forget it.
Neither one of us is gonna convince the other side of anything. My original comment was always that we hold privacy too dear. This thread proves it, society proves it. Our planet is still hell in a handbasket by and large and life will always suck I guess. We can not trust others to actually watch over us, so we need civil liberties so we can have the fallacious belief that we are "Safe" |
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EzeWong
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: |
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I think it's highly unresonable to ask a poster here to reveal his identity to a group of annoymous people on a forum (especially Dave's). It's a matter of trust. I'd MUCH rather trust this Korean vigilante with my address than to ANYONE on Dave's... Physcho FT's vs a guy who is trying to do some good for society. I never post my real name here let alone my address. I just know some asshat FT (like thundarr) would call me up and be like "CHILD ABUSER!!! whoo" and prank calling me into all days of the night. Immature people here really. Whereas the Korean vigilante would might think I'm some kind of pedo or something, follow me for a week and then leave me alone. Not to mention, he's mature, anyone who gives himself to any good cause is worthy of my respect. Can't say the same for many of the FT's I met here... Wanna take a poll to see how many here have volunteered time or participated in a worthy cause?
It's a different situation Beej.
Some random dude pulls up to my house and asks to look around for no reason, he can bite me.
Korean police officer comes to my house for random inspecition, I'll think bite me but I'll also say it's ok.
If a korean guy came to my house and said to me, We have reason to believe you are raping young children. We need to take a look around. HELL YEAH come into my house. Where can I sign up to hunt these assholes? Hell, make sure the kids not here... Check my closests if you want to... Maybe the pedo stashed her here while I was out.
It's the intent that matters. And as long as their intent is good, to me, the means don't matter. If they had to go through my fridge, rip up my furniture and damage my clothes because they are looking for a kidnapped girl. SO BE IT. The saftey of another human being isn't worth my liberites.
I don't see why you guys are fighting with a man who's trying to do some good in society. The way I see it. Save all this junk about your "liberities".
Let's say your daughter was raped. And they believe it was a Korean guy down the street. But, hey he has liberities! he has the right to privacy!Korean police tell you, "we can't go into his home... Korean law says that we can't go into his home." EVERYONE would F***ing flip a car over. Don't hold a double standard guys. Bad people are bad people and they deserve justice even if it means that some innocent people are being watched... Oh NO THEY saw you watching porn, wacking off, GOD FORBID. Is that to say that "chocking the chicken" privacy is worth more than catching a rapist?
And talk about ridiculous persuasions... I too can make a hyperbolic statment that's highly disagreeable. Instead of all these "laws" and big brother you're worried about.... You guys are anarchists. If you're gonna pull sucker punches in these types of arguements I might as well let you know I'm a boxer. Seems like you guys value liberities so much that you think drugs, murder, rape, pillaging, incest, canabilsim, and child pornography are liberities too. I think it's my liberity to have sex with 5 year old boys... Hey! he consented to it. It should be ok. It's our right isn't it?
If we could have either dicotomy, extreme anarchy or extreme laws.... I would take extreme laws ANYDAY. I'd much rather have a man inside my house, living with me, watching me 24 hours a day, than have pedophiles and madmen murdering and raping women and children.
Would you rather have an officer inspecting your anus for drugs or a madman on the street inspecting your anus with his foot long sausage? |
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hamlet712
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Why bother Ez wong.
We are gonna destroy the world, they aint gonna listen.
Nice post though. |
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Scotticus
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| EzeWong wrote: |
I think it's highly unresonable to ask a poster here to reveal his identity to a group of annoymous people on a forum (especially Dave's). It's a matter of trust. I'd MUCH rather trust this Korean vigilante with my address than to ANYONE on Dave's... Physcho FT's vs a guy who is trying to do some good for society. I never post my real name here let alone my address. I just know some asshat FT (like thundarr) would call me up and be like "CHILD ABUSER!!! whoo" and prank calling me into all days of the night. Immature people here really. Whereas the Korean vigilante would might think I'm some kind of pedo or something, follow me for a week and then leave me alone. Not to mention, he's mature, anyone who gives himself to any good cause is worthy of my respect. Can't say the same for many of the FT's I met here... Wanna take a poll to see how many here have volunteered time or participated in a worthy cause?
It's a different situation Beej.
Some random dude pulls up to my house and asks to look around for no reason, he can bite me.
Korean police officer comes to my house for random inspecition, I'll think bite me but I'll also say it's ok.
If a korean guy came to my house and said to me, We have reason to believe you are raping young children. We need to take a look around. HELL YEAH come into my house. Where can I sign up to hunt these assholes? Hell, make sure the kids not here... Check my closests if you want to... Maybe the pedo stashed her here while I was out.
It's the intent that matters. And as long as their intent is good, to me, the means don't matter. If they had to go through my fridge, rip up my furniture and damage my clothes because they are looking for a kidnapped girl. SO BE IT. The saftey of another human being isn't worth my liberites.
I don't see why you guys are fighting with a man who's trying to do some good in society. The way I see it. Save all this junk about your "liberities".
Let's say your daughter was raped. And they believe it was a Korean guy down the street. But, hey he has liberities! he has the right to privacy!Korean police tell you, "we can't go into his home... Korean law says that we can't go into his home." EVERYONE would F***ing flip a car over. Don't hold a double standard guys. Bad people are bad people and they deserve justice even if it means that some innocent people are being watched... Oh NO THEY saw you watching porn, wacking off, GOD FORBID. Is that to say that "chocking the chicken" privacy is worth more than catching a rapist?
And talk about ridiculous persuasions... I too can make a hyperbolic statment that's highly disagreeable. Instead of all these "laws" and big brother you're worried about.... You guys are anarchists. If you're gonna pull sucker punches in these types of arguements I might as well let you know I'm a boxer. Seems like you guys value liberities so much that you think drugs, murder, rape, pillaging, incest, canabilsim, and child pornography are liberities too. I think it's my liberity to have sex with 5 year old boys... Hey! he consented to it. It should be ok. It's our right isn't it?
If we could have either dicotomy, extreme anarchy or extreme laws.... I would take extreme laws ANYDAY. I'd much rather have a man inside my house, living with me, watching me 24 hours a day, than have pedophiles and madmen murdering and raping women and children.
Would you rather have an officer inspecting your anus for drugs or a madman on the street inspecting your anus with his foot long sausage? |
Holy crap, this is probably the scariest post I've ever read on this forum. I hope to christ you're joking. I cannot fathom a Western educated person managing to reach adulthood without grasping the absolute freak-show of a world you just described. This is the reason countries have laws and constitutions - so that what you just described cannot happen. Thousands upon thousands of people throughout history have DIED so that this kind of bullshit doesn't occur.
I can't say I've agreed with your holier-than-thou chastisment of the ESL teachers in this country (as that's your usual MO on Dave's) but at least you sounded relatively sane - if not misguided. I really, truly hope I managed to misread this post and not catch the sarcasm/satire. |
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EzeWong
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Scotticus wrote: |
Holy crap, this is probably the scariest post I've ever read on this forum. I hope to christ you're joking. I cannot fathom a Western educated person managing to reach adulthood without grasping the absolute freak-show of a world you just described. This is the reason countries have laws and constitutions - so that what you just described cannot happen. Thousands upon thousands of people throughout history have DIED so that this kind of bullshit doesn't occur.
I can't say I've agreed with your holier-than-thou chastisment of the ESL teachers in this country (as that's your usual MO on Dave's) but at least you sounded relatively sane - if not misguided. I really, truly hope I managed to misread this post and not catch the sarcasm/satire. |
You have me pegged well in terms of writing style and MO. I've managed to become predictable. T__T
I'm not so much making a point, as I'm rebuttaling the claims that Hamlet is like Darth vader, because he feels that it's ok someones watching him is OK if it's to allow help catch illegal activity. Which is why I posed a hypothetical extreme, to show the abusurdity of using such a extreme example.
Yeah I was sarcastic in specific places. Especially here:
| Quote: |
| And talk about ridiculous persuasions... I too can make a hyperbolic statment that's highly disagreeable. Instead of all these "laws" and big brother you're worried about.... You guys are anarchists. If you're gonna pull sucker punches in these types of arguements I might as well let you know I'm a boxer. Seems like you guys value liberities so much that you think drugs, murder, rape, pillaging, incest, canabilsim, and child pornography are liberities too. I think it's my liberity to have sex with 5 year old boys... Hey! he consented to it. It should be ok. It's our right isn't it? |
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hamlet712
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| BUt extremism is usually the only attack mechanism used against people like me, because heaven forbid we enter a little common sense into our daily lives and realise that we are not as safe as we could be. |
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Mr-Dokdo
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| EzeWong wrote: |
I
Let's say your daughter was raped. And they believe it was a Korean guy down the street. But, hey he has liberities! he has the right to privacy!Korean police tell you, "we can't go into his home... Korean law says that we can't go into his home." EVERYONE would F***ing flip a car over. Don't hold a double standard guys. Bad people are bad people and they deserve justice even if it means that some innocent people are being watched... |
Good points, but even though FTs (including illegal ones) may be lousy at their jobs, I would not equate that with rape, murder, etc. Diddling minors is definitely out; but what is the age of consent in Korea?. On the other hand, married women are fine, as diddling them increases the levels of happiness. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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It's really kind of embarrassing to hear him go on like he's some kind of selfless person dedicated to preserving the moral fiber of Korean society. He's made it very clear that his 'targets' have to be foreigners first, then criminals second. Shameful.
The guy is racist, ignorant and stupid. The writer and editor of this article are also racist, ignorant and stupid. Anyone who can't see that this is racism pure and simple may also be ignorant and stupid. |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Cliff notes? |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| EzeWong wrote: |
I'm rebuttaling ok. It's our right isn't it? |
First "playcate" from hamlet, now this. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Hamlet thinks it's great that a group of vigilantes track every move of foreigners in the hopes of catching them doing something evil-like having sex with Korean women. He thinks this group is just concerned about the children of Korea. It doesn't strike him as odd that this group does nothing about Korean teachers, only foreign ones. Even though the crime rate among Koreans is 3.4 percent while it less than 2 percent among foreigners and even though all E-2 teachers have already had to prove that they are college grads and have no criminal background while Koreans/kyopos need not do these things to teach English at hagwons, he feels that foreigners being tracked by vigilante groups is a positive thing. Others do not agree with him. |
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EzeWong
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| flakfizer wrote: |
Hamlet thinks it's great that a group of vigilantes track every move of foreigners in the hopes of catching them doing something evil-like having sex with Korean women. He thinks this group is just concerned about the children of Korea. It doesn't strike him as odd that this group does nothing about Korean teachers, only foreign ones. Even though the crime rate among Koreans is 3.4 percent while it less than 2 percent among foreigners and even though all E-2 teachers have already had to prove that they are college grads and have no criminal background while Koreans/kyopos need not do these things to teach English at hagwons, he feels that foreigners being tracked by vigilante groups is a positive thing. Others do not agree with him. |
No, a lot of those premises you mentioned he doesn't agree with.
I knew someone would take this opporunity to sum up someone else's arguements into their own version. I'm done here. I've probably written an essay worth of matieral, that's only countered with "You're crazy".
If you can't defend your positiion without addressing our rebuttals (btw you were right, rebuttaling is not a word, I should have used rebutted) then you aren't focused. Rather you prefer to attack our spelling rather than arugements or ideas.
Anyways, I'm done wasting my time trying to convince people. This is more frustrating than when I was invited to MIT facing the top 5 debate teams. At the very least they acknowledge and listened to our premises, conclusions, and rebuttals. Ultimatley they slammed us, but here's it just... "No you're wrong. I have no idea why you're wrong, but you are."
I'd have better luck persuading the orange peels next to me. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| EzeWong wrote: |
| flakfizer wrote: |
Hamlet thinks it's great that a group of vigilantes track every move of foreigners in the hopes of catching them doing something evil-like having sex with Korean women. He thinks this group is just concerned about the children of Korea. It doesn't strike him as odd that this group does nothing about Korean teachers, only foreign ones. Even though the crime rate among Koreans is 3.4 percent while it less than 2 percent among foreigners and even though all E-2 teachers have already had to prove that they are college grads and have no criminal background while Koreans/kyopos need not do these things to teach English at hagwons, he feels that foreigners being tracked by vigilante groups is a positive thing. Others do not agree with him. |
No, a lot of those premises you mentioned he doesn't agree with.
I knew someone would take this opporunity to sum up someone else's arguements into their own version. I'm done here. I've probably written an essay worth of matieral, that's only countered with "You're crazy".
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Which premises? And people here have countered with arguments, not just "you're crazy." People have pointed out the inequity of going after only foreign teachers. They have raised the issue of privacy rights. They have pointed out that E-2 visa holders must already prove their credentials and their non-criminal past while Koreans and kyopos do not. They have pointed out that the crime rate is in fact higher among Koreans than it is among foreigners. They have pointed out that it seems only foreign males are targeted, etc. You may not agree with other posters, but my summary of hamlet's view is much more accurate than your summary of those you disagree with: "only countered with 'You're crazy.'" |
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Mr-Dokdo
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| flakfizer wrote: |
| EzeWong wrote: |
I'm rebuttaling ok. It's our right isn't it? |
First "playcate" from hamlet, now this. |
Another of our stellar English "teachers". |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Korea deserves the kind of teachers they get, here's why:
http://www.teachkorea.ca/
BA/BA 3-4 year university degree
You must be a native English speaker
NO experience is required
NO TESOL certificate is required
As long as ads similar to this one are posted on the internet, Korea and Koreans have no business complaining about the people they get.
END OF STORY. |
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