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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:19 am Post subject: Re: Korean undergrads in US attend hogwons for tutoring |
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Print this out and shove it down the throat of any US politician who trumpets No Child Left Behind's focus on testing. |
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IAMAROBOT
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:04 am Post subject: |
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�Most Korean students accustomed to a cramming style of education are generally weak in logical reasoning on their own. Therefore, apart from poor English skills, they find it particularly difficult to write an essay in the �Western� way, which calls for creative thinking,� said the chief of an institute for Korean students in Flushing, who gave the last name Sohn.
�It happens to 1.5-generation [who moved to the U.S. very young] and second-generation Korean Americans who grew up in a Confucian family environment as well,� he added.
In fact, many Korean Americans raised in the United States are confronted with the same difficulties as the students who go on to a U.S. university directly from a high school in Korea.
According to a study submitted by Korean scholar Dr. Samuel Kim to Columbia University last summer, 44 percent of the 1.5 and second-generation Korean Americans who entered high-level U.S. universities dropped out of school halfway through. |
I find this rationale about 1.5 and second generation students hard to believe. The college dropout is pretty high in general and I'm guessing higher for top universities due to them being harder for most people in general. After almost two decades living in the US, they're unable to separate their family life from their school life?
[/quote] |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: |
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A second generation person from any foreign background should be able to at least pass college classes in the US.
Then it's not a "language barrier."
That's not the fault of the universities.
That's not even the fault of the parents.
Students have to take schoolwork seriously or wash out. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Meanwhile, there is another predicament into which Korean students are likely to fall - plagiarism.
�Many Korean students still write cut-and-paste essays, which is considered to be plagiarism here in the U.S.,� said Dr. Kim. |
"Considered" to be plagiarism?? Where on earth (besides perhaps Korea) is a cut-and-paste essay NOT considered plagiarism? No wonder 44% flunk out...cheating/lying/plagiarism is not accepted outside of Korea. Maybe these uni-prep hagwons should be stressing that, but I'm guessing the teachers there are also Korean, so that message sort of gets lost on them. Hermit Kingdom Sparkling.
Ok, so we can write a creative, logical essay better than them, but they can still crush most of us in math, so there's still no clear winner. Oh well, at least we don't cheat as much overall. Still, I'm guessing if we studied Korean and attended Korea's best universities, we'd probably flunk out too (probably for trying to be too logical though.) |
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samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
"Considered" to be plagiarism?? Where on earth (besides perhaps Korea) is a cut-and-paste essay NOT considered plagiarism? |
Russia. |
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Mr-Dokdo
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| Ok, so we can write a creative, logical essay better than them, but they can still crush most of us in math, so there's still no clear winner. Oh well, at least we don't cheat as much overall. Still, I'm guessing if we studied Korean and attended Korea's best universities, we'd probably flunk out too (probably for trying to be too logical though.) |
They crush you at math but are not logical, eh? Interesting. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
Ok, so we can write a creative, logical essay better than them, but they can still crush most of us in math, so there's still no clear winner. Oh well, at least we don't cheat as much overall. Still, I'm guessing if we studied Korean and attended Korea's best universities, we'd probably flunk out too (probably for trying to be too logical though.) |
no, we can also write research papers better than them, not just creative.
as for the math fallacy - please - crunching numbers is no good to anybody if you don't know what to do with it once you've solved it - and just how many Nobel Prize winning Koreans are there in math anyway?
oops, gotcha!!  |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Mr-Dokdo wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| Ok, so we can write a creative, logical essay better than them, but they can still crush most of us in math, so there's still no clear winner. Oh well, at least we don't cheat as much overall. Still, I'm guessing if we studied Korean and attended Korea's best universities, we'd probably flunk out too (probably for trying to be too logical though.) |
They crush you at math but are not logical, eh? Interesting. |
Stop being so logical.
Yes, they can crunch numbers very well, but they still believe in fan death. I see a problem there.
Also, if I spent the hours on math that the average Asian kid does, I'd probably be pretty good too. Unfortunately, I have a life, so I never spent 4 hours a day in a math institute. I'm also very lazy and that alone counts for a lot.
There was an interesting book called "Outliers" (or something like that) which suggested Asians tend to be better at math due to coming from a culture of rice farming, which is very demanding and precise. Yeah, sounds like BS but I haven't read the book yet.
It also mentioned that the nationality of airline pilots can lead to a greater statistical risk of crashing due to the social dynamics. Korean pilots ranked the most likely to crash, due to the fact that they defer to authority and never call out the mistakes of their commanding officers. I'm paraphrasing though, it's just a blurb I heard on NPR. |
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GreenlightmeansGO
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| So, do Korean students stress much about essays or do they just knock one out in 30 minutes, made from the relevant sections of other writers? |
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Typhoon
Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| My sister-in-law is in her last year of high school in the USA and she moved to the USA in her last year of middle school from Korea. She was attending two hagwons in her attempts in order to prepare her for unversity in the USA. They were both Korean run. They both focus on SAT and some essay writing. She emailed me some of her stuff and I was shocked at how bad it was. I told my father-in-law that he should stop wasting his money and have her go get some free help from her English teacher at school. After all that is what teachers are there for. He looked at me like I was insane. He couldn't believe that a highschool English teacher would help kids after class hours. I assured him any teacher would be happy to do this and so the plan was put into action. And what a surprise, she learned to write essays properly. My wife's family was shocked at how easily she learned and at how cheap it was (free). Funny stuff for sure. Now the SATs...that is another matter all together. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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I still love my brother's story about the Korean guy he has to work with. The head of his department interviewed the guy and hired him. When he started, he did not appear to be fluent in English. He wouldn't answer his phone, only answer in email after a very long time, and he was always referring to his dictionary.
Either he sent a friend with good english to interview for him (they all look the same, after all) or he just rote memorized every possible answer. My gf was studying for the oral test to be a stewardess and she had pages and pages of possible questions and the answers. She would just rote memorize every possible answer. |
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DJTwoTone
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Location: Yangsan - I'm not sure where it is either
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="moosehead"]
| Mix1 wrote: |
as for the math fallacy - please - crunching numbers is no good to anybody if you don't know what to do with it once you've solved it - and just how many Nobel Prize winning Koreans are there in math anyway?
oops, gotcha!! |
When did they start giving out Nobel Prizes in math??? |
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yeoja
Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Location: Down south in South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Which is precisely how a few of my friends earn some extra money - by editing (and by 'editing' i mean 'writing') crap essays by these students. These are the kids who go abroad for 4 years of hell, come back to Korea, and start teaching Englishee private lessons claiming they graduated this uni or that in the US and can speak perfect English..  |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| yeoja wrote: |
| Which is precisely how a few of my friends earn some extra money - by editing (and by 'editing' i mean 'writing') crap essays by these students. These are the kids who go abroad for 4 years of hell, come back to Korea, and start teaching Englishee private lessons claiming they graduated this uni or that in the US and can speak perfect English.. |
Any idea how I can get in on this |
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