Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Mr-Dokdo]

This is something I have been wondering about and which I hope some person with a long and deep knowledge of Korea will be able to shed some light on: do Koreans lie so much to each other, or is that something they reserve for foreigners?

[Passions]

Koreans don't really think lying is lying in the sense that Westerners take it.

Westerners believe in black and white, where Koreans believe in gray.

Face is more important than truth here.

[DCJames]

Koreans are only concerned about the outward appearance of things even if the actual reality/substance of things is going to pot. Saving face is more important than anything else, even the truth. Koreans aren't ashamed of doing wrong until they're caught and exposed to the public. Loss of face.

In the west, we're ingrained with the idea from early childhood that the "heart of the matter" or the substance of things/people is greater than the externals.

Koreans are really an attractive group of people, but there's not much more beyond the facade.

[nebraska1]

[anjinsan]

About ten years ago, a Korean friend of mine advised me
one day by the photocopier: "Don't believe anything Koreans tell you."
I figured he was just being a typical gyopo fence-sitter disparaging
his brethren in order to win the approval of a non-tribe member.

Over the years, I have realized he was actually trying to help.

After years of working in administration here, it really is true.
Most common is the intentional misrepresentation of self or company
(we Westerners call it "f'ing lying out one's arse"); whereby one doesn't lie outright, but puts out enough of an image (usually untrue) in order for the viewer to form an innaccurate notion of said entity--an innaccurate notion which was the original goal. Take a look around here in K. and you may see what I'm talking about.
(Example: I have a friend who works at a company in its "International Bureau," of which he is the "Manager." He is the only person in said
division--he IS the International Bureau. Sure sounds professional and global though. Funny.)

Yup, I'll chime in on the "appearances are everything" assessment of K. culture and thought.
I'd advise other non-Koreans in Korea not to follow Diogenes' example and roam the streets endlessly searching for an honest man, here or anywhere else.

[Jane]

Notice how Mr.Dokdo doesn't usually contribute, but is always trying to claw information and opinions?! Be weary! KH, or KT journalist, perhaps? Or, our Mr.anti-English-Spectrum? Just a hunch

[adeline]

read a great article a while ago by a Korean sociologist who talked about a hierarchy of values in different cultures. He argued that Koreans value loyalty much more than honesty, but it is the reverse for most Americans. I think its a good way to see things, its not that they are liars, but some things to them are more important than the truth.

[hauwande]

[Jane]

Not mention that 99% of non-Koreans living in Korea couldn't give a rats *** about Dokdo, and therefore wouldn't be the top choice for a forum name. Quote that Mr.Dokdo!

[jkelly80]

Korea has taken the concept of the "white lie" and blew it up to ridiculous proportions. It exists in the West, but not to extent that we see it here.

[Beej]

What I dont understand about the concept of face is that you may lie to save face, but here in Korea everyone knows your business anyway, so is face really being saved.
Lets say you are of moderate means and you go into deep debt to throw a very extravagant wedding for your daughter. Everyone at that wedding knows how much money you really have and that you cant afford that wedding. So what is the ultimate outcome.
I used to work at the school where the owner was very wealthy. From time to time she would delay the Korean staffs pay (never whities) by a month if students were lost and just to keep them on their toes. She could have easily paid the wages with the money in her wallet but didnt. She was very proper and old school and into face saving and deferene by her underlings. But I always wondered why she wouldnt lose face by not paying her employess on time. Should be a big embarrassment that she cant run a school properly or that she was too poor to pay. The concept of face is total bullshit as far as Im concerned.

[shaunew]

I'm more shocked at Koreans telling the truth. When I encounter this phenomena I think to myself that they must be telling the truth to set me up for a lie.

[VanIslander]

here the truth doesn't set you free, it could bury you

no capital 'T' Truth here

but a capital 'J' Justice... or at least a deep sense of injustice

[Jane]

I take everything with a grain of salt that is said in this country, in fact I take things with a tub of salt!! Always consider their motives! Then, the truth will be understood.

[Mr-Dokdo]