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Absolutely disgusting verdict in teen rape case.
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject:

asylum seeker wrote:

kimchi_pizza wrote:

asylum seeker wrote:

Quote:

The court added it took the accused people's old age and illness into consideration.

The grandfather is 87 so I can understand him not having to go to jail to a certain extent. However the uncles are 57, 42 and 39 according to the petition. What a joke.

Let's see....the old monster didn't take into cosideration the girl's age and mental illness, and a grandfather no less yet the courts should take pity on him due to his age and physical health......yea.....I can see the logic....

Even if the bastard's in the guiness book of records for oldest living man, I'd still castrate the m.f.er. 'Least he can be in the oldest castrated living man category.

Don't misunderstand me. I think the old guy deserves punishment just as much as the others, only that if he is ill and 87 he may not be able to serve much of a jail term anyway. All of them deserve life sentences in my opinion.

careful man, there are some posters on this thread that seem unable to diferentiate 'understand' and 'agree'.

But your post is clear to me, you'd like A, but if circumstances point to B... you understand why.

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject:

An 'update' (sort of)

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2898164

Quote:

Lenient sex crime ruling enrages the public

Drive to impeach judge begins as 4 kin in child abuse case are freed
December 04, 2008
Tens of thousands of angry Internet users signed an online petition demanding the impeachment of a judge who handed down suspended sentences to four men convicted of incest.

This posted comment is typical:

�Imagine if you have a daughter with a disability and she was sexually violated by her grandfather and uncles for seven years. Can you still let them walk away?�

The poster, Goeungwangsun, signed the petition on the Agora discussion forum on Daum, one of the nation�s biggest portal sites.

On Nov. 20, the Cheongju District Court convicted a grandfather and three uncles of a teenage girl of sexually molesting her from August 2001 to May of this year. But Judge Oh Jun-keun handed down a three-year suspended sentence to the 87-year-old grandfather and two uncles, 57 and 42, for raping the now-16-year-old girl, who has mental and developmental disabilities.

Another uncle, 39, was given an 18-month suspended sentence. Judge Oh said his involvement was relatively minor.

�It is inhumane for the accused to have repeatedly violated the young victim, who is their relative, by treating her as a tool to release their sexual desires,� Judge Oh said in his ruling. �It is necessary to hand down serious punishment taking into account the victim�s grave mental state.�

The judge, however, said he showed leniency because the relatives, not the parents, have raised the victim despite economic hardship.

�Taking into consideration her disabilities, she needs continuous support and help from the accused, who are her family members,� the judge ruled. �Some of the accused are aged and ill, so it is difficult for them to endure prison life. Therefore, I suspend their prison terms.�

While the court ruled that the family members, despite their convictions, should continue to provide for the victim, the Cheongju office of the Women with Disabilities Empathy, a rights group, is providing her shelter.

The North Chungcheong Police, who first investigated the accused, said the case was gruesome. When police disclosed the outcome of their investigation last August, they said the men showed no remorse during questioning. Authorities said the victim�s father was also suspected of incest, but the statute of limitations had expired, so they had no choice but to drop the case against him.

Police said they began the investigation following a tip from a civic group.

Four days after the court�s verdict, the Cheongju District Prosecutors� Office appealed the case.

Prosecutors initially sought five-years� imprisonment each for the grandfather and two of the uncles. They also sought a three-year prison term for the third uncle.

�The suspended sentences were far too light,� a prosecution official said on condition of anonymity. �We will include more evidence and testimony in our appeal.�

While the appeal is ongoing, public rage showed no sign of subsiding.

On Daum�s Agora message board, an Internet user started a movement to collect 30,000 signatures to demand the impeachment of Judge Oh.

�I cannot stand the fact that someone like Oh is a judge in my country, receiving a salary paid with my tax money,� wrote Chicheonsa, the petition�s initiator. �After the signature drive ends, I will send the Agora members� wishes to the Cheongju District Court.�

The signature drive is scheduled to end on Dec. 19. As of 5:20 p.m. yesterday, 16,021 have signed.

The JoongAng Daily tried to interview Judge Oh, but he declined to comment.

While an angry public joined the signature drive, it has no legal standing to impeach the judge. Under the Constitution, one-third of sitting lawmakers must agree to submit a bill of impeachment. After that, a vote of over half of the lawmakers is needed to actually remove a judge.

Some rights groups and progressive political parties have decried what they consider to be the judge�s poor understanding about the nature of a sex crime.

The Democratic Labor Party issued a statement on Nov. 25, urging the appeals court to review the case.

�When a sexual crime is committed, the top priority is separating the victim from the offender,� the party said in the statement. �But the ruling proved that the court has no interest in the disabled victim.�

The party complained that the court said the offenders should continue to provide shelter for the victim. �Is it normal that a victim should live in the custody of sexual predators?� the party asked, warning that the crimes will likely be repeated.

�This is just unacceptable,� said Lee Eun-sang, deputy director of the Korea Sexual Violence Relief Center. �Heavier punishments are handed down when a sex crime victim is a family member or a child or a disabled person. And in this case the victim fits all three categories. Yet the judge still spared the offenders from jail.�

Lee said the judge�s supposed ignorance about sex crimes is a serious issue. �The judge suspended the sentences, noting that they have raised the victim while facing economic hardship, but abuse of power is a common element of a sex crime,� Lee said. �It was easier for them to sexually violate her because they had the power of raising her, and they abused such a relationship. But the judge simply failed to see it.�

While it is not the first time that a judge has faced public criticism for handing down lenient sentences, the Supreme Court has tried to establish a punishment yardstick for certain crimes.

As a part of judicial reform, the nation�s highest court has established a sentencing committee and created sentencing standards for bribery, sex crimes and murder.

For the sex crimes, the committee said no sex offender should escape a jail term, and those assaulting a victim 13 years of age or younger should face the toughest sentences.

According to the standards, the recommended sentence for rape should be imprisonment for between two to four years, but punishment for raping a child would carry a five- to seven-year sentence.

The commission also eliminated many mitigating factors when sentencing sexual predators. Heavier punishment should be handed down for premeditated crimes and offenses against particularly vulnerable victims, while punishment can be lightened when an offender voluntarily surrenders or reaches a settlement with the victim.

The commission held a public hearing on its standards on Nov. 24 and will create another list of standardized sentences for robbery, embezzlement, breach of trust, perjury and making false accusations.

According to Lee of the Korea Sexual Violence Relief Center, the Supreme Court�s guidelines give too much room for a judge to interpret the law and reduce sentences.

�Sentencing in Korea had no clear-cut standards,� Lee said. �The punishment manual should include clear standards for suspending sentences. Specific reasons for leniency should be detailed.�

One piece of info that seems to be missing fro the article is someone stepping forward to take care of her long-term. She's apparently being taken care of now, but I was kind of hoping that there'd be a flood of agencies volunteering to take her out of this mess.

It makes me wonder how many agenciies there are in Korea/Seoul that could take on this type of thing (life-long care).

Scotticus

Joined: 18 Mar 2007

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject:

Captain Corea wrote:

It makes me wonder how many agenciies there are in Korea/Seoul that could take on this type of thing (life-long care).

Does it strike anyone else as odd that one of the largest economies on the planet apparently can't support a fucking social welfare system that could perhaps take care of someone whos caregivers are rapists? Why this is even an issue is beyond me, and as CC stated, why an organization - in the absence of a governmental agency - has not stepped up is almost incomprehensible.

bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject:

Scotticus wrote:

Captain Corea wrote:

It makes me wonder how many agenciies there are in Korea/Seoul that could take on this type of thing (life-long care).

I don't find it odd that Korea does not have a rape-centric economy.

Do you have any idea of the costs of both time and money it takes to provide lifelong care? Sometimes it is even too much for complete, supportive families to care for a member with a serious chronic illness.

It seems you think there should just be an office where you go in and fill out a form to get lifelong care, they say yes, and yell, "Next!"

Scotticus

Joined: 18 Mar 2007

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject:

bacasper wrote:

Do you have any idea of the costs of both time and money it takes to provide lifelong care? Sometimes it is even too much for complete, supportive families to care for a member with a serious chronic illness.

It seems you think there should just be an office where you go in and fill out a form to get lifelong care, they say yes, and yell, "Next!"

You're telling me you're from a Western nation that doesn't have social workers? It doesn't have welfare, either?

bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject:

Scotticus wrote:

bacasper wrote:

You're telling me you're from a Western nation that doesn't have social workers? It doesn't have welfare, either?

We have social workers. I have worked with many of them. Do you have any idea how long it takes one of those social workers to place someone in such a facility and all the bureaucracy it entails?

I still have a couple of questions about this case:
Where is the mother?
What are the girl's wishes?

jkelly80

Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject:

I would imagine her wishes include not being raped again.

Joe Boxer

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject:

jkelly80 wrote:

I would imagine her wishes include not being raped again.

haha! true.

Oh and thanks for the update, Captain Corea.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject:

Troll_Bait wrote:

mzeno wrote:

blaseblasphemener wrote:

It's an indictment of a society with very little rule of law, in practice

.

How could a country, as you say, 'with very little rule of law,' also have one of the lowest crime rates -per capita- on the planet?

Easy. A lot of offenses here never make it to the books. They are solved through "blood money" or other informal means, and there are no records. In North America, everything is documented. You are also far more likely to be taken to the police station than here. For example, I've seen people here shove police officers, and the officers just stand there and do nothing at all. In North America, you would be immediately taken to the police station in handcuffs.

It still doesn't wash as an "indictment of a society" as the other poster claims.

Take Canada for example.

http://www.routledge-ny.com/ref/criminology/canada.html

This source states that about 1 in 4 Canadians say they were victims "in the previous year" of a crime yet less than 1/2 report it to police.

Only 1/3 of assaults are reported.

The most common violent crime is simple assault.

So obviously not everything is documented.
Not even close. And with numbers like that, it's not anything to hold up to Korea as a shining example in terms of crimes not making it to the books.

Yet were someone to say that this is an indictment of Canadian society, people would jump all over him.

Scotticus

Joined: 18 Mar 2007

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:29 am Post subject:

bacasper wrote:

We have social workers. I have worked with many of them. Do you have any idea how long it takes one of those social workers to place someone in such a facility and all the bureaucracy it entails?

You realize the case is OVER, right? They were accused, tried and convicted. You're telling me that in that time nothing could be done about this? What a disgusting excuse to put someone back into the care of her tormentors... "there's lots of red tape." I can't speak for the rest of the Western world, but in NYS she would NOT be in their care. They would have restraining orders on them and would not even be able to get close to her.

PS - My gf's mom has been a social worker for over twenty years. A case this clear would NOT end up in bureaucratic red tape. I can state this as a definitive fact.

Medic

Joined: 11 Mar 2003

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:33 am Post subject:

The police found the case gruesome. They probably wanted to wretch methinks. The uncles etc also showed no remorse, and the father was also probably involved as well. Statue of limitations saved him from court. Man, they are probably mentally deficient. Not your normal, human beings. Basically, theyre pedophiles ala CPN. They say it's a power thing that drives them or that the perpetrators were subject to abuse when they were younger. Maybe the Grandfather set the ball in motion when the Uncles were younger. Who knows. There doesn't seem to be any statistcal pattern about the origins of the drive, so the literature doesn't give any definite reasons for men or women wanting to get their jollies like this. And what of the women, wives or whatever in the household. Were there other children as well. Maybe the rest of the household got desensitized to what was going. The women could have been depraved too. Probably barbershop workers. The case made it to the courts, because someone tipped the police off. Be interesting to get that persons version.

dirkdiggler

Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Far from costco

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:33 am Post subject:

traxxe wrote:

Each of the men should be raped repeatedly for the rest of their lives by any Korean who asks for it. The crime of raping them and punishing them short of death should be made legal and encouraged. All the locks from their homes removed.

You can have the 87 year old, i think ill pass

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject:

http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr112/mindmetoo/sosueme%20and%20hobo/sosueme24.jpg

Joe Boxer

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr112/mindmetoo/sosueme%20and%20hobo/sosueme24.jpg

Awesome!

Troll_Bait

Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:17 am Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Troll_Bait wrote:

mzeno wrote:

blaseblasphemener wrote:

It's an indictment of a society with very little rule of law, in practice

.

How could a country, as you say, 'with very little rule of law,' also have one of the lowest crime rates -per capita- on the planet?

In no particular order:

1. I wasn't arguing that this was "an indictment of a (whole) society." I only took issue with the use of Korea's "low" crime statistics as some kind of redemption.

2. UrbanMyth grudgingly concedes that crimes are undereported in Korea, but immediately follows up with an ad hominem tu quoque. (OK, I admit that you have a point, but Canada is just as bad!)

3.

Quote:

This source states that about 1 in 4 Canadians say they were victims "in the previous year" of a crime yet less than 1/2 report it to police.

Only 1/3 of assaults are reported.

The most common violent crime is simple assault.

So obviously not everything is documented.

This isn't what I (and other posters) was talking about. The above could refer to people not reporting a crime with an unknown perpetrator because they figure the perp won't get caught. What I (and others) was referring to is the fact that, in Korea, someone could get taken, in handcuffs, to the police station for assaulting someone, and there will be no record because he pays "blood money." In Canada, someone taken to the station would surely be documented and have a record.

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