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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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hillann
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Location: United States
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 Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: University jobs |
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Can someone tell me when universities hire? Like, is it only spring or are there also fall and winter hiring periods?
THanks! |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Search the forum or skim a few pages, you'll find answers. I'm guessing if you are asking now, you aren't in Korea, aren't qualified or aren't very serious about getting a uni job. Not being a jerk, just calling it as I see it as you would have noticed the recent threads about uni job.
To answer your question, you just missed the hiring period, but there will be some unis that are still looking, just not the good ones. |
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hillann
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| no i've been in Korea 7 months. just not sure if I should finish my hogwan contract or quit and take advantage of a university offer I just got...will lose severance pay and pension if I quit but I don't want to miss the opportunity. I was thinking about finishing and waiting for the next hiring period. That would be fall right? |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| It's pretty rare that new teachers to Korea get uni jobs. Most people I've met have been in Korea at least 3 or so years, then they finally get that coveted job... Unless you have a Masters or PHD, better wait a little longer... |
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The_Source
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Keep the hagwon job and get your severance. Korean university jobs will still be there next time. They are easy to get, and they keep getting easier as these places continuously lower their standards.
Notwithstanding that fact, I would advise anyone against working for a Korean university at all. It's not the "opportunity" that some people make it out to be. I'm back in the hagwon world and I'll never go back to teaching at a Korean university. But if you simply feel like you must get a Korean university job, at least don't do it at the expense of your severance (which, after 7 months, would be more than 1M won lost).
Consider this possibility: Let's say you accept this university job, but it becomes so unbearable that you must break your contract early. Then you will lose another severance, AND you will have two consecutive jobs lasting less than one year. (That doesn't look good on a resume!) |
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Tamada
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Tamada on Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| OP, you said that you were already offered a job, right? Not just an interview? If you WERE offered a job starting in March, you have plenty of time to talk to your boss and tell him the situation, and give your 30 day notice. If you really think you'd like a uni job, go for it. If you're content where you are now, finish out your contract, extend for a few months, then get a uni gig. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| The_Source wrote: |
I would advise anyone against working for a Korean university at all. It's not the "opportunity" that some people make it out to be. I'm back in the hagwon world and I'll never go back to teaching at a Korean university. |
Worst. Advice. Ever. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Hanson wrote: |
| The_Source wrote: |
I would advise anyone against working for a Korean university at all. It's not the "opportunity" that some people make it out to be. I'm back in the hagwon world and I'll never go back to teaching at a Korean university. |
Worst. Advice. Ever. |
Yes. |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: |
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It all depends on your personality. Some people work really well with kids, MS, and/or HS students. It's not for me. I prefer uni students. I'm not talking about hours/time off/pay here, just what group you have a good connection with.
There seems to be a lot more "politics" at unis from what I can tell, but if that doesn't bother you, than uni is great! |
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Scotticus
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| Hanson wrote: |
| The_Source wrote: |
I would advise anyone against working for a Korean university at all. It's not the "opportunity" that some people make it out to be. I'm back in the hagwon world and I'll never go back to teaching at a Korean university. |
Worst. Advice. Ever. |
Yes. |
Thirded. Unless you're at one of the tiny minority of hagwons that aren't slave ships, you'll be nuch better off at a uni. Even if the uni sucks, you'll end up with something to put on your resume that will get you a better job later on. |
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Tamada
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Scotticus wrote: |
Thirded. Unless you're at one of the tiny minority of hagwons that aren't slave ships, you'll be nuch better off at a uni. Even if the uni sucks, you'll end up with something to put on your resume that will get you a better job later on. |
Yep..agree 100%. That all said...maybe if people are stupid enough to take the advice of The Source...then maybe they deserve what they get.  |
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The_Source
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Well, despite the faction that seems to be forming, my opinion about Korean universities doesn't change. Many teachers seem to get star-struck by the word "university" and they have in their minds that Korean universities are somehow cushy, prestigious jobs. However, there is virtually no advantage to teaching at a Korean university. It won't make your resume look better in finding a job back home. It won't even help you in finding a job in another EFL country such as Japan. All it will do is make your resume look better for the next Korean university job, IF (and that's a big IF) you finish your contract. That's not necessarily a given. Since Korean universities lie and cheat just like any other place in Korea, they can become just as intolerable as any other job. If that happens, you will wind up with a resume that has a university job of less than a year. That looks worse than a resume with no university job at all. So if you take a university job thinking that it will improve your resume for a better university next time, be aware that you are taking a risk.
Disadvantages of working in Korean universities abound.
Compensation: The salaries at Korean universities are lower than other jobs, and they keep getting lower (I've seen salaries as low as 1.5 million). Most don't pay airfare, and many are no longer providing free apartments or housing allowances.
Hours: The hours are long. Although the TEACHING hours may be low (12-16 hours), prep time and grading will take substantially more time than at any other jobs. Expect split-shifts. In addition to that, many jobs are making their teachers do some chair-warming. Seokyeong University wants 6-8 office hours per week, and Busan National University of Education wants you on campus from 9AM-6PM every day.
Students: Class sizes are large (as high as 40-45 students per class), so it's impossible to get to know all of the students, but you will need to find a way to grade them on a curve. Students commonly whine and complain about their grades. Unless they get an A+, the grade is always lower than they're expecting. And they WILL let you know about this, giving you a laundry list of reasons why they think they deserved an A+ instead of the A that you gave them. Some may even decide to take it up with your superiors (followed by the dreaded "may I see you in my office" memo).
Vacation: The long vacation times are ebbing away. Korean universities are increasingly having their teachers take on extra teaching duties during the vacations (at no extra pay). Students will also try to commandeer your vacation time by requesting a meeting with you in your office so they can whine about the grades that you gave them. Anyway, even if you are lucky enough to get a long vacation, you won't be able to travel anywhere on the low salaries they're offering.
Personally, I don't see why anyone would want these sorry excuses of jobs. Putting up with all that crap for a low salary... NO THANKS! That's my opinion, take it or leave it. But if you do decide to go with a Korean university, just be aware, there may be "tears before teatime." |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Source wrote: |
Well, despite the faction that seems to be forming, my opinion about Korean universities doesn't change. Many teachers seem to get star-struck by the word "university" and they have in their minds that Korean universities are somehow cushy, prestigious jobs. However, there is virtually no advantage to teaching at a Korean university. It won't make your resume look better in finding a job back home. It won't even help you in finding a job in another EFL country such as Japan. All it will do is make your resume look better for the next Korean university job, IF (and that's a big IF) you finish your contract. That's not necessarily a given. Since Korean universities lie and cheat just like any other place in Korea, they can become just as intolerable as any other job. If that happens, you will wind up with a resume that has a university job of less than a year. That looks worse than a resume with no university job at all. So if you take a university job thinking that it will improve your resume for a better university next time, be aware that you are taking a risk.
Disadvantages of working in Korean universities abound. |
I probably won't change your opinion, but I'll balance it.
I know some people who have used the experience for a job back home or for another EFL country. Either way doesn't matter to me, as I don't want to work back home or somewhere else. And in any case, it won't look at any worse than having a hagwan on your resume.
It's not a big IF as to whether or not you finish a contract. I know (I'm not naive) that there are a number of shitty universities that pull underhanded things or have megalomaniacs in power positions, but I've worked at three different universities and every one of them played above board.
| The_Source wrote: |
| Compensation: The salaries at Korean universities are lower than other jobs, and they keep getting lower (I've seen salaries as low as 1.5 million). Most don't pay airfare, and many are no longer providing free apartments or housing allowances. |
Yes, universities almost never pay airfare. Some have housing and some don't. But, neither of those are dealbreakers.
I won't deny that some universities aren't big spenders, but to give the lowest you've seen as indicative of the situation is giving out misinformation.
My first job at a university (I'll call it university 1 and it is a unigwon) 8 years ago was paying 1.9. It's now paying more, but I'm not sure how much -- around the same base pay as a hagwon less the airfare. This one could possibly fit your generalizations.
My second university job (university 2) 5.5 years ago started at 2.4 and is now around 2.9. Housing is available but you'll take a small ding in your salary. More base salary than at a hagwon (even with airfare factored in).
My present job (university 3) I won't tell you the salary (that would be crass). Still, more than the base at a hagwon by a long shot.
| The_Source wrote: |
| Hours: The hours are long. Although the TEACHING hours may be low (12-16 hours), prep time and grading will take substantially more time than at any other jobs. Expect split-shifts. In addition to that, many jobs are making their teachers do some chair-warming. Seokyeong University wants 6-8 office hours per week, and Busan National University of Education wants you on campus from 9AM-6PM every day. |
Yes, again, some universities suck.
People make a lot of fuss about the hours. Prep and grading are usually completely dependent on the teachers. A large number of teachers teach the same lesson plans semester after semester after semester and their prep down is very low (a lot of these teachers also give assignments that require minimum grading). The average teacher does whatever they feel is reasonable, and that could be anywhere from an additional 12 to 24 hours a week. As for me, I'm a prep and grading *beep* so my hours are way up there, but this is the important thing to remember: whatever prep and grading I do I bring it on myself. Administration has next to no idea what's happening in my classroom, and as long as students are satisfied, administration is satisfied.
University 1 -- 20-hour base, and I put in an additional 20 (at least) grading and planning. Intensive programs tacked on a few more hours.
University 2 -- 12-hour base, hours usually blocked, generally a day off a week, and 2 office hours. My prep time ranged from a few hours to 30 hours more (but remember, I'm not indicative of most teachers). The greatest number of teachers reused lesson plans semester after semester and didn't give homework which was grading heavy.
University 3 -- 12-hour base, hours generally blocked, most teachers get a day off a week (not me, but I'm the new guy), and 2 office hours. My prep and grading time is pretty high, and I don't know about the other teachers (I'm new), but all of the prep and grading I do is something that I put on myself.
| The_Source wrote: |
| Students: Class sizes are large (as high as 40-45 students per class), so it's impossible to get to know all of the students, but you will need to find a way to grade them on a curve. Students commonly whine and complain about their grades. Unless they get an A+, the grade is always lower than they're expecting. And they WILL let you know about this, giving you a laundry list of reasons why they think they deserved an A+ instead of the A that you gave them. Some may even decide to take it up with your superiors (followed by the dreaded "may I see you in my office" memo). |
University 1 -- 12 for speaking classes, 24 for reading and writing.
University 2 -- largest class ever was 40, smallest class was 9, and the average was around 23~24.
Present university -- maximum 20.
Sure I have whiners. Who cares? I listen to their reasons and if they have any valid ones (like a mistake in my math) I'll change their grade, but if they have no valid reasons I say no, and it's no big deal. They can go over my head all they want, but that's never happened (and if it did, I have my spreadsheets and copies of student emails).
And at the end of the day, the students make it for me. Everybody has a niche, and mine is university students. I love going to class.
| The_Source wrote: |
| Vacation: The long vacation times are ebbing away. Korean universities are increasingly having their teachers take on extra teaching duties during the vacations (at no extra pay). Students will also try to commandeer your vacation time by requesting a meeting with you in your office so they can whine about the grades that you gave them. Anyway, even if you are lucky enough to get a long vacation, you won't be able to travel anywhere on the low salaries they're offering. |
University 1 -- about 12 weeks broken up across the year.
University 2 -- 20 weeks.
University 3 -- 20 weeks.
Teaching duties during the vacations at universities 2 and 3 are paid at overtime rates.
My traveling is pretty good. Last summer I went to Canada for 7 weeks and Europe for 2 weeks, as well as a few days in Japan. The summer before, Canada for 7 weeks. The summer before, Canada for 4 weeks, Guatemala, Belize, and Honduras for 4 weeks. Right now I'm debating where to go for a couple of weeks this winter.
Money does not play a big factor in my vacation plans.
| The_Source wrote: |
| Personally, I don't see why anyone would want these sorry excuses of jobs. Putting up with all that crap for a low salary... NO THANKS! That's my opinion, take it or leave it. But if you do decide to go with a Korean university, just be aware, there may be "tears before teatime." |
On vacation time alone every one of my university jobs makes the hagwon jobs I had look bad. In areas such as teaching autonomy and the power of grades, universities kick hagwon asses.
I don't deny that there are bad universities, but rather than telling people not to work at any university, it would be better to tell people not to work at the bad ones. And I want to point out that the cream of the crop do not generally advertise on websites like this one. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Good post, beav.
I will just leave it at this: I get 20 weeks of paid vacation a year. Show me a hagwon that will give me that.
Game. Set. Match. |
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